Sensible COVID-19 cost management

When times are tough, many businesses Indiscriminately slash costs, without thinking about long-term consequences. It can be especially tempting to reduce the business’ headcount given wages are often a company’s greatest expense.

This can be a false economy, as firms will need their best people when economic conditions turn, and a recovery phase begins. There are many ways to reduce costs now, so the business is in the best possible shape to survive these challenging times and be positioned for growth down the track

“Assets that are not helping to produce profit can be sold, repurposed or retired

Don’t slash, right-size

Morris Miselowski is a business futurist and strategist. He says successfully navigating the current climate is more about right sizing than arbitrarily eliminating expenses.

“Severe cost cutting is too aggressive. A better approach is to truly understand the business and what it’s trying to achieve, making sure it has the resources to do this,” he says.

It’s essential to manage human resources costs during a downturn. But this does not mean letting people go just to reduce overheads.

“In my model, 60 per cent of the business should be conducted by current staff. They should have the skill set to take care of day-to-day operations and get most things done,” says Miselowski.

“An itinerant workforce should undertake the other 40 per cent of the firm’s activities, drawing on the gig economy. These are people who can be brought into the business on an as-needed basis. But they don’t necessarily have to be full-time staff,” he explains.

It’s also important to take advantage of all the government incentives available, for instance the JobKeeper scheme. This is an initiative that pays $1,500 a fortnight to employees of businesses that have been severely affected by restrictions in place as a result of the coronavirus pandemic, as long as they keep staff on during the crisis and beyond.

“Apply for everything the business is entitled to,” says Maini Homer, founder of business consultancy Tall Poppies Rising. Homer says another idea is to encourage staff to take any leave they are owed now while the business is quiet.

“Do your best to create a win/win situation. Because you want to maintain good relationships with staff now and in the future when the pandemic has passed.”

A new approach to asset management

Miselowski says asset management is another area where businesses can right size their operations.

“Review all your physical assets and look at whether they are necessary for the business to achieve its purpose,” he says. Assets that are not helping to produce profit can be sold, repurposed or retired.

Taking charge of expenses

Expense management is another area where many firms can reduce costs. But it’s important not to cut so close to the bone the company doesn’t have the resources it needs to do profitable work. Insurance is one area where cutting corners doesn’t pay off.

Risk is high now, so now’s the time to choose well-known insurers who have a good track record. This helps ensure the process will be as efficient as possible if you do need to make a claim.

There are, however, other areas in a business where lower-cost providers can perform the same or similar service as an incumbent without any adverse effect.

“Researching your options when procuring goods and services can result in significant cost savings,” says Homer.It’s also worth asking for short-term fee reductions where possible. You may be able to negotiate with suppliers to drop their costs for the next six months; on the understanding you will continue to buy from them long-term with the potential for them to raise their prices once more normal economic conditions return.

Ultimately, you want to ensure your business is corona-proof now and into the future. See this as a chance to strengthen your operations to withstand any future shocks and pursue new business opportunities as they arise.

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{podcast} COVID’s long term impact on our kids, family & future selves

In this week’s radio segment Hong Kong Radio 3’s Morning Brew host Phil Whelan and I take a look at the Australian introduction of a COVID tracking app, why it’s a must have if we’re going to tame this outbreak and then head of in search of the ripple effects this pandemic may have on children, family, education and our future selves.

Recorded live 21st April 2020 – 15 minutes 01 seconds


[00:00:00] Phil Whelan: [00:00:00] It’s quarter past 12 and off we go back to Australia about a thousand miles South as we were in Brisbane earlier on, and say hi to Morris Miselowski. Good. Hey Morris.

I’ve had some few things go on today. People talking about stuff, obviously to do with viruses and covert 19 and stuff. one of Jarrod’s stories was about the new app, and I figured perhaps technically you could fill us in a bit.

Morris Miselowski: [00:00:33] Yeah, I can. So this came into existence on Sunday. For us, the federal government’s looking for about 40% of the population, at least.

To download it and put it on to their fine. Yep. Download. Of course, it’s free. It relatively quick. Guide, downloaded. It took me literally about a minute and a half, two minutes to get the whole thing rock and rolling, and then it sits on your phone permanently until you deleted it. So what it does is it [00:01:00] turns on with your permission, it turns on your Bluetooth and puts it into permanent on status, and also gives you a liberal message on your home scrape to tell you it’s working.

Okay. That’s all that you say on your phone in the background. What it’s doing is when you, whenever you go anywhere, if you have been somewhere for longer than 15 minutes. So that’s basically the cutoff. Market’s not looking at every single person you walk by with. Basically the fine doesn’t move 15 minutes.

It’s pinging out other people that have that app, and it’s doing that through Bluetooth. It’s not sending your name, it’s not looking for their name, it’s just looking for the Bluetooth signal. And what it’s doing then is taking the Bluetooth signal, the code for that, and storing it on a database. On your phone, so it’s storing it on your phone and nowhere else at this stage.

Now the premise works like this, should you get COVID and the doctor says, yep, you’ve passed the test, unfortunately, and you [00:02:00] have it. One of the things you’ll be asked for is do you have this app? And if you say yes, you’ll then be asked to push a button on the app, which says, share this information.

It’s a big blue button at the bottom. Okay. And with your permission, once you hit that button. It sends all of those pings. In other words, all of those Bluetooth messages across to the government. This is where you have to trust and the government then contact all of the government, then contacts, all of the people that you have been there in the last year.

10 days or so that you’ve been in contact with for 15 minutes or longer, and it makes the way, not that Morris has it, so it doesn’t point you out, but it says somebody you’ve been in contact with has had covered and therefore you have to do X, Y, Z. That’s the premise of it. Okay.

Phil Whelan: [00:02:46] Now, so far so good. Morris, what do you reckon as a third party.

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:50] I reckon it’s terrific. I reckon it’s terrific because we need to do some active look. This thing is not going to be everything. It’s not going to solve our problems, but one of the [00:03:00] issues we have getting out of jail is this, that we’re told that we can’t leave because if we leave, it’s possible. Lots of people will contract covert and we will be back to square zero.

Phil Whelan: [00:03:13] Right? You know what already already know as you’ve brought up a brilliant topic. You’re just saying you got to trust, et cetera, et cetera, across the world. How much of this stuff is getting screwed because people do not trust the government.

Morris Miselowski: [00:03:27] Yeah. Look, I think lots of it, Phil. I’ve got a really basic philosophy.

I’ve advocated for everybody to download this app. I think it’s nonsense if we don’t. The reality is if you think the government needs this to trace you, then you’re living on Mars. If you think the governments are interested in what you’re doing, then you really do have to have some assistance because the government’s not really that interested in what 99.9% of us are doing.

And this app has a purpose. It also has it also, we believe, again, all belief. We believe that when this thing is said to have ended, whenever that is a month, a year, [00:04:00] sorry, I’m not a year, 18 months, that the app will disconnect itself and we will be able. Too. and we will be able to delete it. Okay. You have to trust all those things.

I don’t have an issue with the app because as we’ve talked many times about how easy it is to spy on people. The government does not need this to be able to spy on us.

Phil Whelan: [00:04:19] Very interesting reality. Check there, Morris. Let’s just go sideways for a second. What would be the least thing on my person walking around that I would need for somebody to, if they really wanted to, to check me out, a phone switched on.

Is it that simple?

Morris Miselowski: [00:04:35] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let’s forget this app. If somebody really wants to know what’s on your phone, in fact, if somebody wants to steal the contents of your phone, this will send everybody into a spin. You only need to go into the black wave, no address provided, and there’s a little device you can buy, which is very, very cheap, and you can sit there and literally sucking all the details of all the mobile phones around you.

Phil Whelan: [00:04:56] It’s done on proximity.

Morris Miselowski: [00:04:58] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:05:00] Is there, there are many, many, many stories of people sitting in, in food courts sitting in the street, sitting in cars, and they’re literally just, just hoovering in all of the information around them.

Phil Whelan: [00:05:12] Hey, we’ve all used, remind me most, I don’t think you’re an Apple guy.

I, you know, an iOS guy right.

Morris Miselowski: [00:05:18] On a half. Half.

Phil Whelan: [00:05:19] Okay. So, work wise, it’s really good to use airdrop. If you work in a one machine, you want to go to another, you sit on a bus or a ferry or something and you open air drop loads of them come up and there’s that. The gate.

Morris Miselowski: [00:05:30] Could be. It could be if you allow, allowed to be.

Phil Whelan: [00:05:33] Yeah. But I mean, my phone recognizes all the people sitting around me and I’m one of the people sitting around them. and I think sort of protest movements have used this kind of thing before. They, they go fishing and they just, airdrop stuff to whoever’s around them sounds to be wide open to me.

Even though it’s useful.

Morris Miselowski: [00:05:48] It’s, it’s possible. It’s absolutely open for abuse. It’s not, it’s not always as easy as that. Often you need the permission of the other person. I certainly. On mine would would insist on big giving [00:06:00] permission for somebody to airdrop something for me. Yeah. I imagine there are people out there who just have the switch on and that’s a terrible thing in any, it

Phil Whelan: [00:06:07] doesn’t matter what BOMA state moments.

I like to work between iPad and phone and I always have to tell myself, everyone I should remember not to do that because I’m sending it to me and I forget to switch it off, I suppose. I don’t know.

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:19] Well, you need to be careful. You need to be careful is the thing. You shouldn’t do it. No. You just need to be mindful that juniors should close the door behind you when you’re finished.

Phil Whelan: [00:06:26] Yeah. So, what, what, what else on my person would give away my identity if somebody was really smart at doing that?

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:34] Your face to start with

Phil Whelan: [00:06:36] yeah.

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:37] I’m not being facetious, in the old days, that’s where it started from, and then we went to people’s letterboxes. We did all kinds of things. People have been stealing people’s identity forever and information forever as well.

That doesn’t make right. It makes it terrible. It just means we have like always new tools. It’s somewhat the make it somewhat easier to do that and you don’t have to be as close to the person physically.

Phil Whelan: [00:06:59] Yeah. [00:07:00] What strange times we live in though more is that our immediate reaction is going to be, I don’t trust this.

The boy that cried Wolf and all that stuff. I mean, back to what I asked you about, people just not trusting governments, especially in this part of the world.

Morris Miselowski: [00:07:13] I think that was true. I think that will be true. I think it’s at the moment, especially in Australia, it’s not as true as it once was. In other words, we’re looking for big brother.

We’re looking for a government or some entity to help us to get out of this problem that we’re in. We can’t do it by ourselves. We need some overarching, so in the last three months, we’ve given away rights. That really, if I said to you in February before all of this, imagine Australia doing this, we will all be sitting here laughing.

And I would have lost my license to practice.

Phil Whelan: [00:07:42] Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So what is the trust level like with your government in general? I mean, I only get the juicy stories of you guys, but just, you know, down the line, mom and pop.

Morris Miselowski: [00:07:52] Yeah. I kind of tell that we’re, that we’re at the tail end of this because we’ve moved into what I call the pre-phase for the last two, three months.

The government [00:08:00] was in some ways a day. It was some way, Holly, like a small G, God, we listened to it. We, we, every day we, we waited for the press release to be told what was going to be happening. And. Most of us kind of towed the company line, so to speak. You can see already people arrive over the last week or two.

People are beginning to rebel every time they open the beach. We tend to find that people align on it where they shouldn’t be and you have hundreds of people. When I walk around the streets, you know, for that walk that we’re allowed to do one of four things that we’re allowed to do. Walking around the streets, the streets are packed with people walking.

The parks, I think are the most, I love going to the park, but it is so full of people. It’d be about the worst place to go if you were truly hibernating and trying to keep away from

Phil Whelan: [00:08:42] people, which I would recognize. Everybody’s over it and they just.

Morris Miselowski: [00:08:46] Cause we’re all pushing back. We’ve, we’ve kind of forgotten the message of how terrible this thing can be.

Because thankfully in Australia it’s not as bad as we heard other places. And we’re really saying, well, what is all this stuff about in typical Aussie, [00:09:00] she’ll be right fashion. And we’re pushing back now.

Phil Whelan: [00:09:03] Yeah. So what’s the scene in Melbourne? Cause I said to him this morning, I mean he’s always going on about Sydney is different Perth’s different, but what’s the scene in Melbourne and how do you think it might be?

Conversely in Sydney. Behavior-wise.

Morris Miselowski: [00:09:15] Well, yeah. So, so Melbourne now, government is being described now as being particularly tough. Other States have all begun to speak about how they will release us from our hibernation, our jail, whatever you want to call it. You know, you’ll be able to go out for a little bit longer, a little bit further.

Queensland has said by Sunday you’ll be able to travel up to 50 kilometers, you’ll be able to go and buy clothing and shoes. You’ll be able to congregate in groups of up to 10 so they started to give some leeway. Some of some Western Australia also has Victoria. Our premier has said, we’re in this for another week.

10 days. Don’t even think about changing anything. We need to see how things are going to evolve. So where. Apparently, or at least it’s being [00:10:00] perceived now that we are a bit more draconian, but our premiere is a bit more hesitant to let us out into the wild yet. So there’s literally only started in the last two days at the Bates, so we’ll see how that rides itself out.

Phil Whelan: [00:10:14] I know Melbourne, supposedly, is the the biggest party town in the world, or the best gig town in the world? One of those. Anyways, so can you foresee this flood of relief and people.

Morris Miselowski: [00:10:24] Yeah. Well we’re definitely the best gig town cause we asked. We are seen for our arts and our theater. We do like going see live music bands doing all of that kinds of stuff.

Yeah, definitely a part of our, of our culture going to pubs doing that. We certainly will. They’re going to the theater, going to live bands, going to those sorts of things. I still think a months away and the way that we used to want to have them and maybe not till the end of the year, but certainly we will start getting back on the streets as soon as we can push back into restaurants and pubs.

We’ll all be done with 1.5 to meet our distances and things, but we’ll, we’ll evolve out of that too. [00:11:00] Which

Phil Whelan: [00:11:00] demographic or age group do you think has behaved, has been the most compliant over this where you are?

Morris Miselowski: [00:11:07] Definitely the, the elderly. I shouldn’t say that. I’m getting close, you know, the either seventies I’m not that close yet, but the over seventies definitely have.

They went into lockdown long before Phil. I mean, my sister and brother are both that age. They’ve been in lockdown, I think, for their entire life. It feels like .

Phil Whelan: [00:11:25] Yeah.

Morris Miselowski: [00:11:26] Yeah. So they’ve definitely, and they’ve taken it quite seriously as have many other people that I know are that age. and the rest of us, I think rest of us have been fairly good.

There are lots of anecdotes, but I, that to me, they’re the one off stories or they’re the 1% of that we’re using. There are lots of stories of younger people having parties. We had the Airbnb story last week where a group of teenagers or early twenties had hired a pad. To get starting to have drugs into and to dance.

We’ve had those stories. We’ve seen our beach stories. We had a couple of footballs [00:12:00] that have been seen to be doing the wrong thing, and as always they brought it on themselves because they posted their wonderful experts on social media,

Phil Whelan: [00:12:08] but look, a very impressionable age, not super, super young, but the age when kids kind of get stuffed.

Let’s talk about your average ten-year-old. How are they going to be as 20 and 30 year old adults as a result of this.

Morris Miselowski: [00:12:19] Yeah. There’s a lot of conversations going on around that. It has to, it has to Mark them the same way that children living through the depression or living through a wall were marked by it.

Now, when they went through it, they obviously had lived and had lived the way you had to live appropriate to the time. But what’d you find afterwards is it does leave scars of thinking of scars, of thought. If I think there’s going to be big issues around hygiene, not necessarily washing our hands, but feelings of security of the home being secure, the family being secure, and when we don’t have that anymore, I think they’ll have separation anxiety or those sorts

Phil Whelan: [00:12:54] of, what was it called?

Compulsive conditions perhaps.

Morris Miselowski: [00:12:58] Yeah, well [00:13:00] maybe, maybe not. But the notion that you are safe, you know, when you’re a 10 year old, you still want the safety of parents. And if the world is telling you the only place that’s safe is home with your mum and dad, I think it’s a really serious lesson. You can’t go to school because of it.

So I’m guessing, I’ve spoken to a number of psychologists. I had one on my show last week. Yeah, we’ve talked about that. And she was also saying that the, the medium to longterm psychological issues that come out of this will be quite stark.

Phil Whelan: [00:13:27] Let’s talk about the upside and they’re going to be better citizens.

Not going nuts, but just general behavior. Maybe busy. I’ll see if he comes back. We’ll wait for a second.

Morris Miselowski: [00:13:40] Good. Hey, welcome back.

Phil Whelan: [00:13:42] I’ve learned to be patient with this thing. Yeah. What about, what about the upside? Is there going to be sort of in a good knock-on with your average 10 year old now when he grows up, when she grows up.

Morris Miselowski: [00:13:52] Yeah. I hope so. I’m hoping we will. We’ll have adjusted the education system. I was probably a bit too late for them, but maybe for the younger siblings. So [00:14:00] education will have changed. Also the workplace, the notion that, you know, many parents have rallied, I’ve heard for 20 years against this flexible workspace, working with technology.

Too many screens. We’ve all lived through a time when those things were really helpful. I’m hoping those messages won’t be sent to our kids anymore. We’ll see. Innovation and change is a normal pop for them. The changing jobs, changing careers is ordinary. They have to be adaptable. All those messages I’m hoping we will have learned as adults, as onto our kids.

Phil Whelan: [00:14:28] Finally, are we going to see basically nicer, more friendly people down the line? More time, more humility, more understanding and empathy. No,

Morris Miselowski: [00:14:39] not really. And then the reality for me is that we do that we do now hopefully will rub off to Phil. I mean, I don’t know of anybody else, but I tend to go back to my old grumpy nature when I can.

Phil Whelan: [00:14:50] Fair enough. Moses says we’re going to leave it there. Bah humbug. Talk to you next week. Always fun there. Morris Miselowski live on the line from st 


Webinar – What Now/What Next

Dealing with the stress of Covid 19

The person we were pre-COVID-19 has gone forever and with it the hopes, aspirations and dreams of the future-self we might have become.

Instead many of us are left with huge uncertainty, unable to plan long term, at the mercy of the unknown and scrambling to figure out who we are during COVID-19 and who and what we might need to become after COVID.

Following on from last week’s hugely popular Webinar looking at jobs and work now, next and after next, David Southwick MP and I (Morris Miselowski) are joined by Judith David, Clinical Psychologist to explore the human behind all of this and chat about:

• how to deal and vanquish stress
• how best to manage and thrive in uncertain times
• practical tips for harnessing evilness and using it for niceness (to quote Get Smart)
• kindfullness vs mindfullnes
• how knowing your OCEAN personality may help you cope

and then we’ll escape for a few minutes and venture into the future to explore:
• the positive legacy COVID medical research will leave us with and
• what fighting this terrible virus might look like 2030 style

{VidCast} Staying Mind Healthy During COVID

Keeping Mentally Fit is one of the biggest challenges of COVID-19 and in this week’s regular chat Morris Miselowski, Global Futurist, and Hong Kong Radio 3’s Phil Whelan catch up to talk about the impacts COVID is having on our mental health and what we can do about it


[00:00:00] Phil Whelan: [00:00:00] it’s 12 minutes past 12 and it’s Tuesday afternoon. That means if you have a moment and you’d like to see and join in, if you like with Morris Miselowski, get us on Facebook live morning brew where Morris is right now. Good day, Morris, how are ya?

Morris Miselowski: [00:00:14] Hi. It’s so wonderful to see you.

Phil Whelan: [00:00:16] I know last time it was down the beach

Morris Miselowski: [00:00:18] and the wind thing. Maybe we should call it television.

it’ll never catch on.

Phil Whelan: [00:00:25] That’s not a bad idea at all. Is this your, your your covert set up because you’ve got, you’re looking really slick there today.

Morris Miselowski: [00:00:31] Yeah. This is, this is the office, the bunker back home.

Phil Whelan: [00:00:34] Yeah. Not better to what’s been happening more is I’d been away. James has been looking after things wonderfully and I’m sure you’ve had some good chats. What kind of ground did you cover with James? Anything that I need, I need to know.

Morris Miselowski: [00:00:45] So we talked about, we talked a lot about jobs and where coven was going to take us in that job.

The front. We had to look at security last week too. And this notion of the apps and things that were going to happen with w that lots of us are going to be asked to use and [00:01:00] whether that was a safe thing to do or not. And you know what I came out with, cause it’s my usual line every week, Phil, you know your niceness Navalny this niceness and evilness.

It has a purpose now, but for me it needs to have a grandfather clause, meaning a sunset clause. Sorry. Meaning that at some point they’ve got to be able to turn it off in assurance. Nobody’s looking at this anymore.

Phil Whelan: [00:01:19] It’s not going to happen. That was it.

Morris Miselowski: [00:01:21] I don’t know. I don’t know. Cause in Australia we’re, we’re kind of being educated, which is a nice way of saying the press is talking about it more and more.

On Saturday, our prime minister that we’re going to have this app given to us and we need 40% of the population to have it on their mobile device, or it’s useless. And they’re saying without legislation yet, but they’re promising that it will have a sunset clause when we’re over this, whenever that thing is, they’re going to turn it all off and everything will disappear here.

Phil Whelan: [00:01:48] Sunset close. Explain that a bit. What other examples

Morris Miselowski: [00:01:52] of that? Perhaps? I think at some point somewhere down the track that it will disappear. Like sunset. Yeah. And so they’re, they’re [00:02:00] promising us at this stage without there being legislation that at some point when we reach whatever it is that we have to reach, they’ll turn it all off and nobody will be, nobody else will be able to spy on us.

But I think it’s all, it doesn’t really matter, Phil. We need to have it so we can get back outside. Yeah. He’s just saying,

Phil Whelan: [00:02:16] Oh, they’re not going to spy on us anymore. Okay. And of course, no

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:19] worries. There’s a million ways they can spawn. It’s really, that made this, I mean, it’s, it’s so silly to say this is going to be, they’re spying on us anyway.

Phil Whelan: [00:02:28] Yeah. Yeah. I want to bring up a quote that Morris, you can read about this on his, on his website and everything, which I’m sure you’ll find out about in a second. Maurice gave me a very gloomy quote this morning. Oh, it fat. have you got it there? If you’ve got it, then Oh, here we

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:42] go. Would be fact.

Phil Whelan: [00:02:44] It was, it was, something about, well, we’ve changed, we’ve changed and we’re never going back and all that stuff.

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:53] Which quotes are Phil. Sorry. So you voted lows. What was talking over you? So I don’t know which one you be.

Phil Whelan: [00:02:59] Alright, here we [00:03:00] go. It says, the person we were pre covert 19 has gone forever. And with it, the hopes, aspirations, and dreams of the future self, we might have become an, I read that on your website, Morrissey.


Morris Miselowski: [00:03:12] that’s what I’m said. It’s so melodramatic. It’s wonderful. But it’s truthful because we all had a vision of who we were going to Bay. We never saw this fork in the road coming and everything we thought about ourselves was based on it and never being here. So who were at work, how we were going to live, who we were going to love, where we’re going to go for restaurants and holidays, all that was part of our life.

It was who we thought we were going to be. At some future point and all of a sudden this thing covert came along and it took us down to detour and we’ve had to become somebody very different. So we’re, lots of us are at home now. We’re not necessarily doing the satisfying work that we might have otherwise done.

We’re not going out and enjoying the sunlight, the sunlight or whatever else would have done. So we’ve had to become a different sort of person. And lots of people I’m talking to down the track of very worried for who they might be afterwards. Will they have a job? You know, will the family be safe? All those [00:04:00] kinds of negative questions, which are really part of living through these aims.

Phil Whelan: [00:04:03] It’s almost like a bit out of taste to talk about the positive side of things. I mean, quite understandably so, but instead of this, how about we say something along the lines of is it a test and how well are we doing? If it is.

Morris Miselowski: [00:04:16] Yeah, look, I don’t mind that at all, but really the purpose of that was a webinar we did last night.

It’s a series of webinars every Monday night in Australia, and your listeners are more than welcome to join me next Monday night. What we talk about really are positive things feel. Cause you know, that’s really where my head takes me. Yeah. It was an opportunity really for us to press reset and reboot.

It’s horrible what’s happened to us. We don’t want to ever have happened, nor do we want it again. But let’s take this opportunity to rethink who we are.

Phil Whelan: [00:04:44] It sounds a bit blahzay to say reboots. I’m sure everybody listening and watching knows what you mean, but we have to watch our language right now then

Morris Miselowski: [00:04:50] we, we do.

But I actually think it is an opportunity to do that. And we had a psychologist on last night. We had Judith David on. She spoke to us pretty much most of the hour, exactly [00:05:00] that she was talking about. The notion that we have really, in many ways, been stripped back to a human in a way that we’ve not ever had in any of them living memories.

And that is that. Everything that we thought we were, everything we thought we could achieve, no longer is possible, and we’re often waiting now at the behest of somebody else. So waiting for government department that tells us we can do it. We’re waiting for something else. So our lives are very, very different.

She, I, we talked about the notion of maybe taking some of the good stuff out and what’s happening to us and moving forward with that as part of a future self. By that it was my example, and I’m sure it’s happening in Hong Kong, but can’t get there, can’t tell you, you’ll tell me. But in Victorians and Kilda, when we go for our daily walks, there is so many people walking around saying hello to each other

working in the slow lane.

They literally are taking a deep breath. They’re stopping, they’re talking, they’re playing their kids, they’ve reformulated their lives. It’s not that nine to [00:06:00] five anymore. Kids are becoming important in a different way, but there’s

Phil Whelan: [00:06:03] one thing missing with all of these things. Morris, that’s people’s incomes across the board.

They’re losing out

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:08] big time. Yeah, and we know that Phil, I mean, again, I’m not for a moment saying any that’s not real, but what we have also in that guys is there is a government in Australia and lots of places around the world. They’ve agreed to subsidize wages. And they’re giving people all sorts of income to be able to sustain them.

It’s not a great deal of money, but it’s something now that’s interesting cause you and I have spoken over the years about this notion of can we give people what’s called a universal wage? Should the government, in fact, give everybody enough money to live off regardless of who they are and what they do?

And everybody’s always said no. Well, I

Phil Whelan: [00:06:44] why it’s like nothing for nothing or something. Is it one

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:46] of those? Yeah, that’s usually at one is because we’ll go economically break. Well, we’re not going to, it’ll be difficult, but we will come over and I’m talking about Australia specifically. Yeah. We overcome this.

It will take us years, but we will do it. So the going broke thing doesn’t work. It was really the [00:07:00] social inequity that many people believe. Look, you’ve got to work for it. Yeah, I’m going to get it out on the handouts in lock. You just got,

Phil Whelan: [00:07:06] uh, a, yeah, I was about to say Victorian. I mean, it is a very Victorian

Morris Miselowski: [00:07:11] notion, so it’s Victorian.

Of course there’s, but that’s, but that’s the notion of what happens in most of our life. I mean, as much as we don’t want to agree with it, Phil, that’s the, like many, many people in our capitalist worlds say it. So I’m fascinated to see how quickly we’ve all taken on board. And I think rightly so. I think it’s a great thing we did.

We’ve all taken on board this universal wage. The other thing that really tickles my fancy is the fact that we have become a martial law. I mean, in Australia we have martial law. The government literally overnight has become a dictator for the right reasons, often doing the right things, and we’ll debate for years whether it was or it wasn’t, but it seems to be okay for the moment, bringing in all sorts of laws, which literally are locking us back into our homes.

Phil Whelan: [00:07:53] Does this bring up the conversation of democracy then.

Morris Miselowski: [00:07:55] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So all these things that we once thought were sacrosanct. There were [00:08:00] things we could never talk about. Things that were always part of our life that were the structure and the fabric, and you didn’t have to worry about them because they would just wear now all of a sudden aren’t anymore.

And it’s really interesting to see the big debates on these types of issues. It wouldn’t have happened before Phil. So for me, what I’m hoping is, I’m really hoping is that, not that we’ll go to universal wage and not, that will be. Continue to be a martial law, but that will take some elements of the good stuff out of this, some elements of the good stuff, and we might mix it in to a future world.

Phil Whelan: [00:08:30] Take us through a little bit of what went down last night. I mean, any particular angles from your guests, for instance, that you went on? That’s a very interesting.

Morris Miselowski: [00:08:37] Yeah, it was. We talked about what it was and we talked about the notion of many people get their self worth from their work, so if you ask them who they are, the first thing they’ll tell you is, I’m a broadcaster on the futurist, on the plumber, on the, on the landscape, or whatever it is, and that defines them.

Yeah. At the moment, that’s not true. Most people can’t say that with any certain thing. If they do, it still makes them feel uncertain. So [00:09:00] Judas talked about the notion of really understanding ourselves and using this time to get really comfortable with us

Phil Whelan: [00:09:07] finding us Morris’s very interesting one because in some, I mean certainly where we are, to be Frank, there’s a lot of people define themselves by the four wheels they sit upon and the four walls they live within.


Morris Miselowski: [00:09:17] So she gave us a really good insight and I love it and I’m going to plagiarize. And so she didn’t say this, I said that, but truthfully I pinched it from her. She said, really, really what we are as a human is, sorry, who we are as a human is not what we are. And we have to get those two things really distinct because the, what is the job title?

But what is the driver of that Lamborghini or whatever the car is? And she said at times like this, all the wop falls away. All we’re left with is who. And we have to get really comfortable with who we are. And from a psychologist viewpoint, she said that one of the most difficult things she sees and has in her many, many years of practice is that most of us feel uncomfortable with ourselves.

We’re not used to being by ourselves. We’re not [00:10:00] used to being alone. And she thought this was a particularly good period for us to get a bit more comfortable with not being by ourselves as in one on one, but actually getting comfortable with ourselves as not being that. Whatever that title is or the or the driver of that car.

Phil Whelan: [00:10:14] Hang on a second, Morris. Let me invite people to join us on Facebook live if they can. Morning brew. Interesting conversation from Morris this morning. And this is where you can just put your thoughts and feelings if you want. And basically it was sort of saying how are things really going to be different?

And I’m not even going to say when an F cause that’s a tricky topic as well, isn’t it? Morris? Give us a key thing to perhaps get our listeners going. What would you say is a key thing to consider before they give us maybe their point of view.

Morris Miselowski: [00:10:40] So it really comes back to me is understanding your core, what makes you joyful and happy, and don’t make it a job title.

It’s what makes you get up in the morning. I mean, really it is what makes you get up in the morning if you won that mythical Tetes lotto or the Tetes or whatever it’s called in Hong Kong. In other words, if you want a squillion dollars and didn’t have to work again, most of us would still want to do [00:11:00] something to be active.

Yeah. What is it you would want to do? What is it you would want to do then? And we’re not going out to find that all to win that mythical manual that, that’d be great. It really is going back to the core of who we are. The other thing she said and with her that lots of movies and things, but I like the way she phrased it in the way she put it into context was that your enough that the answer, the question is do wherever you are and whatever you do.

And she said me. So you know me is always enough. That’s all I need to be me is always enough and me is a progression, make changes through life. So I’m giving all thought. Maybe I should start charging for psychological advice.

Phil Whelan: [00:11:37] I’m glad you mentioned that, Morris, because I must talk about money here. A lot of people are being hit really hard freelancers of the world, whatever business they’re in, they’re really getting slammed with all this stuff.

And we’re starting now to talk about money as a necessity rather than a vanity.

Morris Miselowski: [00:11:53] I think we’re starting to see it that I’m not sure it is because it goes back to the previous, that if we hold the value of everybody [00:12:00] getting universal income, then money almost becomes a material. Everybody has it.

Everybody has access to enough now. I know. That’s a silly comment. It’s not well thought out. It’s not meant to be, but it’s part of the esoteric conversation that people have had for forever since we were put on this earth. Now the different regimes, different ways we look at the planet, different ways we divide up what we have on this planet.

This is a really interesting time to be talking about all those things because everything we thought was so certain just isn’t anymore.

Phil Whelan: [00:12:27] So as humans, let’s be honest, we tend to be reactive because we perhaps lazy. We don’t go to the doctor unless something hurts. And doctors have said time and time again.

Well, if you came to us before, it might not hurt that. No, no, no. We’re going with that. So we’ve been forced. To be reactive. Now this is not just like, Oh, whatever. I’ll forget about it. We can’t.

Morris Miselowski: [00:12:49] No, you can’t. You’re absolutely part of it whether you want to be or not. I mean, you can be one of those protesters around the world and say it’s all nonsense and we shouldn’t be social isolating and the rest of it, but the reality is most of us on the planet have [00:13:00] bought into this.

We actually think it is a real pandemic. We think there are really our issues and we are all, for whatever reason, better or worse, part of this journey. The other thing, and again, it seems to be quoting Judith a lot. No, it’s great. Yup. The other thing she said to us last night was that even though we’re all in it together, she actually got quite heated about this and I liked it cause it was something I hadn’t thought of before.

Even though we’re all in this and we keep hearing all this dribble, you know, in the media and everywhere else and we’re part of this, we’re all in this together. She said, in fact, we’re not. We’re all individual humans. What we’re doing is responding to the same thing, but every one of us is individual and the way that we’re responding to it is 100% correct for me.

Not for anybody else. So some people might be overplaying something or be overly concerned about something that doesn’t make them wrong. It makes them them.

Phil Whelan: [00:13:49] This is fascinating. There’s so many angles to what you’re talking about. I’m finding it hard to put it all together. I want to be able to say a logical sentence, but I can’t.

But everything you’re saying is ringing true. Most it really is. Or, or due to the set.

[00:14:00] Morris Miselowski: [00:14:00] Yeah. Yeah. So again, going back, we were on the last night for an hour and 10 minutes, so it’s on the in the media is the section, and you can rewatch last nights, and the one before that last Monday’s was about jobs in covert as well.

But last night you’ll be able to watch Judah. So again, business in the media is the tab you want and you’ll see it there. But. I liked it because it gave us some really homely advice, which is really what we need at this time. It wasn’t heart level, it was just really sincere from the gut conversations.

You know, if you want to go further, and I, this is a concept I’ve never heard of before. She said that humans have five personality types, and it’s by the acronym of ocean, O, C E, A N ocean. So according to the personality type that we have. Speaks a lot about the way that we’re going to react to covert and react to other things in life.

So I’ve done some research since, and she told us what ocean is, but it stands for this. [00:15:00] It’s openness to experience is the openness to experience. Conscientiousness is the sea. Extroversion is the agreeableness is the a, N N is neuroticism. Ocean, and apparently it’s a psychological tool that’s been around for ever and ever.

It’s how they quickly evaluate. It’s like triage. It’s, it’s a quick evaluation of the mental state of somebody. And what she was saying was, depending on which one of those personality types, you’re more often in because we all move depending on situation, but more often will really depend on how vastly important this thing will be, how catastrophic it will be, or whether it’s an opportunity.

In other words, if you’re open to experience the O and Ocean and this is just an opportunity, you’re just looking at it exactly like that. If you aren’t neurotic, which is the end, the other side, then of course everything about this is going to be catastrophic. Everything about this is going to be wrong.

So from her viewpoint, that’s why she said, it’s really [00:16:00] about me as a human. It’s not about all these other things. It’s how do I react to it? And she gave us this really interesting tool of ocean, which you can Google, O, C, E. A. N. and is that

Phil Whelan: [00:16:10] alone? Is that, that’s the thing is

Morris Miselowski: [00:16:13] it’s been around for 40 50 years.

I’ve got to come up. Yeah. Psychological piece of theory that’s been well taught, well researched for a very long period of time, and it’s a really quick way apparently, that psychologists or psychiatrists have used to quickly be able to assess people before they do a lot of in, in depth work. And it does give you, I’ve looked at it quite a lot since last night.

It does give you a really good insight into how we might approach things.

Phil Whelan: [00:16:37] Yeah. There were a couple of very well known tests. I suppose this, this product has got to be a test for. This is a

Morris Miselowski: [00:16:43] test for everything

Phil Whelan: [00:16:45] very. Let’s talk about some general

Morris Miselowski: [00:16:46] tips for coven. That’s the only thing. There isn’t enough tests or

Phil Whelan: [00:16:49] how ironic noise.

Let’s talk about generalizations. We’re talking about things like that. Resetting. People are saying the world is resetting. I was talking to a couple of very sort of hot [00:17:00] conservationist guys this morning. I said, the water looks cleaner, and Gary said to me, I think you might be imagining it, but maybe I am imagining, but it seems cleaner to me.

Morris Miselowski: [00:17:07] Yeah. So your openness to experience then on the ocean or the outside,

Phil Whelan: [00:17:15] Morris, if you were talking to a bunch of sick farmers, for instance, in this thing about reset came up, where would you take that conversation?

Morris Miselowski: [00:17:22] Ah, so when I get the opportunity to do that, and I’ve had it already, I talked to them about the reality that they know and people my age have difficulty with, and that is that their will will constantly change, that they will never have to worry about being stuck in doing something for 20 or 30 or 40 years.

They’ll be using a myriad of skills and that they always need to be open. So opportunity, they always need to see and find their own way. And this period for them really illustrates that really well because the rest of the world that had been so used to things being predictable day in, day out are now learning that lesson with kids.

And I saw, well, social

Phil Whelan: [00:17:56] media and anybody over 40 would probably have [00:18:00] you think that it’s a slap in the face for millennials who are lazy in self entitled.

Morris Miselowski: [00:18:04] Apparently. Oh look, I don’t agree with that. I think every generation is, I mean, every single generation, the Beatles, the Beatles were given to us by the devil incarnate.

They were taking us to hell. I mean, every generation says that of every other generation, Phil, and it goes back to Socrates and all the way back. Yeah.

Phil Whelan: [00:18:19] All right, Morris, we’ve just got a couple of minutes left. So this webinar, it really sounds like people should watch it. Tell us slowly and clearly anything you want our listeners to go and check out.

Morris Miselowski: [00:18:28] So the past two are at You can watch them at your leisure next Monday. I’ve just been confirmed. You actually are the first to know this.  we have a huge company Australia called they are employment agent. They are an employment online employment space. Their CEO, Paul Bassett, is joining us next Monday night and we’re going to be talking how to get ready to apply for jobs.

Pre, during and after Covid. He’s going to talk to us about the jobs that are currently on his site, what, what companies are looking for right now, and how [00:19:00] to prepare ourselves. So resumes, job interviews, and all those sorts of things is next Monday night,

Phil Whelan: [00:19:05] or the cynics will say he’s wasting his time. I hope he’s not.

Morris Miselowski: [00:19:09] he’s not, there will be jobs. Of course, there will be, and we will move into a new space. There’s a whole new way, a whole new, well, not a whole new way there. There will be a different way of approaching this, and Paul is the best person to tell us that. It’s the largest employment site in Australia, in Australasia, actually.

Phil Whelan: [00:19:24] Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Now, a lot of people whose jobs weren’t so well known now are, I mean, they may not be getting paid at all or very much at all for doing them, but that we’re talking about performers and people like that.

Morris Miselowski: [00:19:35] Hey. Welcome to my life. Welcome to moments. It’s

Phil Whelan: [00:19:37] like when you left yesterday, I was going to say, when you left the room virtually, what were you thinking, Morris?


Morris Miselowski: [00:19:43] it was dinner time and I was really hungry,

but it wasn’t, it wasn’t notion around me and I really liked the point that we’ve talked about already that. Even though we keep hearing this, this well [00:20:00] trotted phrase that we’re all in this together. Yeah. Her comment that we’re, that we really aren’t, we’re individuals responding to the same sort of circumstance and that makes it valid, but it also means that we have some control over the way that we approach.

What we have to do.

Phil Whelan: [00:20:14] Fantastic. Moris. It’s really fascinating stuff and there’s tons more to talk about. As the weeks go by, I’m Sean, and as when when things do tend to possibly ease off, I wonder if you’re going to change your tune. Once again, Morris, tell our viewers and listeners where they can catch out your webinars.

Morris Miselowski: [00:20:28] So it’s – in the media section. You’ll see the tab there and I’ll put up a link there and tomorrow when it opens up for next Monday nights.

Phil Whelan: [00:20:38] Brilliant. I’ll talk to you next week. Morris has always been fascinating to talk to you by, by Morris Miselowski there on the line from Melbourne .

{Podcast} Selling In a Time Of Corona

Despite the current doom and gloom there are still lots of selling and buying going on and even if things have slowed (or stopped) there are loads of things we can do right now that will affect current and future sales.

Elliot Epstein, one of the world’s most formidable advisers and coaches on persuasion, presentation and selling and I chatted recently about how to sell in times of corona.

Here’s just a few of the topics we explored:

  • How to tap into our shared global safety and hygiene paranoia
  • Which industries are thriving now,
  • Which industries will be thriving next
  • Which will not come back
  • evaluating and prioritising clients with a Covid-19 lens
  • what you must do right now

Lots of other practical tips and advice, absolutely worth a listen.


[00:00:00] Elliot Epstein: [00:00:00] So someone ate a bat apparently, and the world turned upside down.

Hi, I’m Elliot Epstein, and I’ve spent the last 20 years of my life coaching, consulting, training in speaking about all facets of sales development, pitching, presentations, negotiation, the C suite sales call, and all of the various components in the sales cycle in between. And now we find ourselves in a world that’s very foreign.

Welcome to selling in a time of Corona.

In this week’s episode, we’re going to look at the future of sales. The future being an interesting word. Is that the future? Tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or beyond. We’re going to look at all of those scenarios. [00:01:00] I’m delighted to introduce you to Morris miselowski and Morris I go a long way back.

In fact. We both went to school together all those years ago. Now since then, Morris has become a leading global futurist, an expert in his field, who’s spoken all over the world about what’s coming around the corner in business. In addition to which he’s an adjunct industry fellow at Griffith university and the only futurist and the first Australian to ever be invited.

To  the G100 global think tank, so he’s well worth listening to. I of course, went on to become very tall. Here is my chat with Morris Miselowski on the future of sales. Welcome, Morris it’s great to have you as part of selling in a time of Corona. And I’m sure my [00:02:00] listeners in clients,  eagerly awaiting what insights you have because you can share with sales leaders and sales directors and sales people what you think is coming around the corner.

So what’s top of mind for you right now?

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:16] Thanks for having me on Elliot. Something that I wanted to do for a very long period of time. Yeah. There is so many things that we need to talk about that it’s really difficult to prioritize. Firstly, let’s just get to the elephant in the room. We all know that we’re going through difficult times.

This is not a broad cow to talk about them. Let’s move on from there and talk about the ramifications of it instead. Sorry. To me, it really is a matter of trying to understand as always. The implications of what we’re facing and the maybe the short, medium, and longterm ramifications of it. And for selling this so vital, because we have gone into the Sci-Fi equivalent [00:03:00] of a black hole, we’ve literally gone into a black space that makes no sense to us.

We can’t see clearly and like any good sci-fi adventure when we come out of it at the other end with coming to a brand new galaxy. And I think we’re exactly at that point where we will move forward five and in some industries, 10 years in these short few months that we have been incarcerated in our homes, and there’s so much change that you and I need to talk about and our listeners need to take on board.

Elliot Epstein: [00:03:34] So what do you think are the major changes that are going to occur for the people that are selling professional services. And product. Now, that wasn’t the case, so a couple of months ago,

Morris Miselowski: [00:03:50] well, firstly we’re about to, we have lost or about to lose, about 12% of businesses will never reopen there than this.

[00:04:00] Some of those were struggling anyway. Some of them just couldn’t stick around and hibernate and some of those will evolve or implode or do whatever, but they will disappear. That’s 275,000 businesses. So the first thing we need to do is to understand our own landscape, look at our database, look at our CRM, and.

Figure out who is still around. Who is it that wants to buy our product? Who wants to buy our services? What do those businesses look like when they come out the other side of this and they will come out of it very, very different justice. We will, their needs will be different. Their approach will be different.

The conversations will be different. The evidence that they’re looking for from our sales paper will be different. Everything will be different because this. Well, this period that we are going through has scarred and

Elliot Epstein: [00:04:53] changed us. I think it’s interesting in a lot of, a lot of the [00:05:00] content that I’ve been discussing with my clients for almost two decades now, which is about the authentic engagement with a client.

Stop selling, stop the methodology, stop trying to steer people down a path. And become an authentic conversationalist with your clients and remove your agenda is probably never been more relevant than now. And the humanity that you’re talking about here is exactly on point with what people are going to be facing coming out of this.

So what percentage of those 275,000 are in corporate land, which is where my clients live as opposed to the restaurant or cafe up the road that unfortunately won’t open again.

Morris Miselowski: [00:05:46] It’s really hard to be specific on that,  as much as I’m trying to be. And the reason for that is this is a really lumpy, bumpy conversation.

We’ll need to go through it sector by sector, industry by industry, and ask ourselves [00:06:00] either than industry or sector or business. That can have survived is an industry that can thrive. And we’ll come to those in a couple of moments because there are industries literally that are booming now and now there are industries that will need to reinvent in, reinvigorate, or do something different to in, in order to survive into tomorrow.

But to answer your question, I think we’re about 50 /50 I think we’re about 50 of corporate and 50 of mainstream. They will be so much wholesale change that we need to consider.

Elliot Epstein: [00:06:32] Yeah. So status quo management of accounts and territory management just isn’t possible going forward when we come out of this and come out of the cave.

So you mentioned the sector’s Morris, I’m sure everyone’s came to know what sectors are booming and are going to continue to boom when we look at market opportunities and what should we avoid and be more clinical and ruthless about.

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:58] First thing is. Sales should [00:07:00] never be status quo. Are you preached that day in, day out.

The reality is that each one of these are individuals. Each one of them are specific circumstances to that time. This notion that we can do one method of selling or have one note in our sales tool makes no sense whatsoever in the past and will make even less sense now. We will need to adapt and change to every circumstance as we always should have.

Proven so now, so the industry is really riding high at the moment that are doing well right now in the middle of all this anx for most of us are things like government funded services because they need to continue. So we’re seeing. Lots of industry around health and police and defense and welfare, aged care, even though it has its issues, is again looking for innovative answers and solutions.

So they’re out there actively looking for those. They have budget in one way or another, and now it’s all tied. It’s different. The government’s impacting none of this, the [00:08:00] pure conversation, but they are still in there. You’ve got utilities. We of course, need our power, our energy, our internet. The water waste recycling.

Those industries have not stopped. In fact, they’ve only increased. If you take something like health and hygiene, which I think will be an interesting thread of conversation in all of our lives after this, it will impact in every industry, but they are the front runners of it. Vaping, the water, the waste and the recycling.

But for you, and I. Just as an aside, why I think it’s an important issue to bring up is because we’ve been taught in the last couple of weeks to wash our hands, to be careful of whom we speak to, to be careful of how far away we are from an object or to touch something or to do something. This is going to leave us really sensitive.

We’re beginning to question whether things are okay, whether they’re to use your word, whether they’re authentic with the healthy, whether we should be engaging with them, [00:09:00] and that mindset, which is really one of Mazlow’s lowest hierarchies. I think he’s going to kick back in very, very quickly.

When we get back into whatever normal becomes meaning your people will need, obviously not necessarily to talk about hand sanitizers, but to talk about safety and security is being proud of working with them as part of the sales process as part of being a collaborative partner. In that process, it will be about health and safety.

I will keep you safe. I will keep you informed. These products are covered. Safe meaning. That it is likely we will see situations like this again, so we can begin to preempt by putting product services, opportunities in place right now should it happen again? It sounds really basic. Human needs are going to be part of a landscape, a conversation, at least for the first six months after we escaped attention.

Elliot Epstein: [00:09:55] That safety point is, is excellent. And I think all of [00:10:00] us in sales, I, to need to look at our value propositions and see where the safety and security of our offering jumps up to near the top when it comes to, what it is that we’re offering clients and what our benefits statements are going to be in addition to HR shared with a client the other day.

this is going to be a bit like marriage counseling where with clients and suppliers have been together for a while and they go through a rough patch and then when you come out the other side, you almost have to learn to re communicate with each other and not take each other for granted so that you can have a better relationship going forward.

And, and I think the, the one of the biggest risks nowadays is to trade clients as if this is just a blip and we’ll continue along the same Merry way with the same budgets and the same products in the same consumption rate as what’s been happening in the [00:11:00] past. And it’s simply not the case. We have to see things with fresh eyes and have a look at how we’re going to reinvigorate that relationship.

And one final point on that is that. The, the essence of what we do with clients has to be done with a new set of evidence and tools. Because what you said three months ago, it might not apply now in addition to which the person to whom you’re speaking with may be very different because people have downsized.

I imagine out of all of those businesses you mentioned that are going by the wayside there. Huge numbers of people that simply want to have a job, so you may have a different decision maker and all of that has to be re-invigorated again from scratch as if you haven’t met them before. What are your thoughts?

Morris Miselowski: [00:11:51] Absolutely. I would say that was ongoing anyway, even before this, we should never take anyone for granted. But never more so than now. We really do have to start [00:12:00] from ground zero. But one of the things that I would urge your listeners to do, and I know because they listen to you, they’re doing this, but just want to put a line under it, is we need to be building those relationships right now.

And not from a sales viewpoint, but from a human kindness viewpoint. Go into our clients, go into those businesses. I’m not talking physically, I’m talking digitally and have the conversations with them about how things are going for them now as individuals, even if they’re home, not able to do their work.

Go back and reconnect because that’s what this time is about. Big great karma, you know, bank points for later on. But it’s also a terrific way to understand what their needs are and to begin to give each other hope, hope that we will get back to a normal round of activity. So absolutely, it is very, very much like marriage counseling and the other end of that, that we will come out of this different human beings with different needs.

So. We must be sure that the landscape is one that we [00:13:00] understand. So we have to make sure that we haven’t taken for granted that what was before will be after, cause it won’t be the person who’s going to be vastly different as well. They will have evolved and changed either dramatically or not because of this period of time.

The products and services that they want are going to be changed as well and likely very likely the budgets that they have will have changed. There are just so many of those variable landscapes. Which is why I think it’s imperative we start doing that groundwork right now.

Elliot Epstein: [00:13:30] You mentioned budgets, Morris, it’s a, it’s a really good, why is a final topic to address how we go forward with our pitches and presentations and our value propositions?

So what are your thoughts on what will happen to clients’ budgets? Are they going to have. The same budget of I going to be severely restricted, or is it I simply a model or restructuring change in the way they finance things? where do you say the whole [00:14:00] budget management taking place.

Morris Miselowski: [00:14:04] I think, well, the answer is the same one as I gave before, and that’s lumpy and bumpy.

It’ll be different for every industry. Those industries are going really well now. The governments, utilities, construction, infrastructure, technology, software, the essentials, like the groceries, the bottle shops, local manufacturing, mining resources. They will have come through this and they watch us, we’ll actually have increased.

They will have more money than before and they’ll be looking for different kinds of solutions that we’ll be looking to ensure that they can again, ride through a covert like activity. And unfortunately, I think it is part of a landscape for us moving forward. So they will have a very, very different conversation.

Are the industries that have been a bit hard to hit. The tourism ones, the ones where perhaps they had all this social isolation that just didn’t work for them. Those sorts of industries that are of course going to have much smaller budgets and they’re going to be looking for a [00:15:00] very different relationship with you.

We also need to be looking at the businesses that will start to come out of this. Because the other thing I would ask your listeners to do is to begin to think about the industries that will evolve once covered begins to be relaxed. So once we are told that there are things that we can do that we couldn’t do last week and again in a couple of weeks, we’ll be told that again and again.

Industries will begin to flourish in each one of those individual pockets. As we open and we need to figure out which ones of our client base is likely to be in, which one of those tronches of activity. For instance, for me, I’m fairly sure that we will see  growth as we have already in online stores and online commerce.

I would be getting into those sorts of clients immediately having conversations with them. All the clients that you might have that are, that are providing, working from home services in a myriad of ways are well-worth contacting now health and pharmaceuticals. [00:16:00] We obviously have a healthcare industry now that’s coping with this crisis, but once we get past that, we’re going to have to go back.

We’re going to have to look at all those elective surgeries, all the things that have been put off, all the things that we couldn’t go out to buy, all the cosmetics, et cetera. That industry is going to come back again, gone through all your industries and kind of figure out what timing you think when in that next set of activities, when we begin to be released slowly and slowly into the wild, when are they likely to come back in and have needs.

Elliot Epstein: [00:16:32] Yeah, that’s an excellent, a small but powerful example of re looking at your prospect list, and you mentioned the CRM earlier, the, this is the time to really dig into your CRM and figure out almost from a selfish point of view. So we talk about being client centric, but there’s a time when you need to be selfish and guy Ron, who needs me right now.

Who wants [00:17:00] me right now, who can afford me right now? And if they can’t make those criteria, then there are other ways of having them. And I, I still see companies struggling with second clients that aren’t the right ones for them now. Now that might sound harsh, but if, if we’re in survival and growth mode, we need to be clinical about where we spend our time and where we spend our resources.

And then that leaves us time to go and help people who really want and need our services because they are on a different trajectory. And that doesn’t mean it’s a binary decision where you, you Chuck people out and and just grow others. But there are going to be some really important criteria that people set that determines where you spend your time.

And I think it becomes a negotiation mindset. I think I should ask you mindset as opposed to selling says where, [00:18:00] where are we going to deliver value for both parties? And when you do that, I think everyone wins in the long run.

Morris Miselowski: [00:18:09] The only thing I would add into that Elliot is I want our listeners to think broader and wider than I did before.

There are opportunities now to engage with our clients in the way that we haven’t had. We haven’t had the opportunity. Collaboration’s now we’re working so well. These covert. Collaborations. You look at perhaps, you know, the takeaway store or the restaurant that’s now selling the flour and the tomatoes and all the ingredients that go into making the food they want sold as a finished product.

If you go through your industries, is there an opportunity now to collaborate in ways that you didn’t do before? Expand your market. Don’t just go back into the narrow wise did you once sold or the ones the why you once connected with PayPal. It’s a terrific opportunity to look at your business models and your pricing models and begin to ponder, is there another way that I can [00:19:00] engage?

Because right now people are so open to suggestion. They’re so open to a point of difference. They’re so open to look at opportunity. This window may not come

Elliot Epstein: [00:19:09] again

Morris Miselowski: [00:19:10] I

Elliot Epstein: [00:19:11] do.

Morris Miselowski: [00:19:12] I absolutely do. And it only, it’s only because if we revert back to a child, we are literally now carrying in a corner.

We’re unsure of what’s happening in the outside world. We kind of believe there is one and there will be one. And I totally believe there will be, but we’re never sure. Every moment brings something different. You and I are literally. Reading the newspaper or listening to the radio or doing whatever we can in each one of those pieces of information is mildly or significantly changing our life.

Elliot Epstein: [00:19:46] That’s true. And you think that, decision makers in the coming six to 12 months, I don’t have to be more open than ever. So in the past where people have said, Oh, we don’t have the budget. We’re not looking [00:20:00] at that for another year. We don’t have time to transition into a new system. We’ve heard that accounts supplier, you think all those things are up for grabs there, don’t you?

Morris Miselowski: [00:20:09] I do except not the six to 12 month period. I think it’s right now. I truly think it’s right now. This is, this is the Latins cave door slowly opening. We’re all looking for solutions. We’re all willing to have different conversations. We’re willing to be human and we’re also willing to be kind. There are lots of things that are taking us back to that human element within each of us.

The reason I’m pushing against six or 12 is that human nature is, once we get back. On the treadmill again, and this is in our revision as much as we think it is or can be, and it begins to normalize. There is a strong chance we will revert back to type. So I think right now, which is why I suggested we should be making those marketing calls, those contact calls, not necessarily from selling, but just from how’s life looking for you?

And again, spreading the news, spreading the gossip, which is what, which [00:21:00] I also think is part of what a salesperson should do. What gossip, I mean industry information, not about people, but about trends, about what they’re seeing. Start to use that as a way to build a really solid base and relationship. And yes, I think now for the next three months or so, there is a golden opportunity to talk differently.

Elliot Epstein: [00:21:21] There’s some fantastic insights, Morris, I really appreciate it. And more importantly, I think my clients and and listeners will appreciate. such great content and, and things and ideas that they can implement now, not just in the future. So it’s been great to catch up with you again. can we sing kumbaya or some kind of encouraging song at the end?


Morris Miselowski: [00:21:46] while I’m sitting here churning up for you?

Elliot Epstein: [00:21:48] Thanks. Get your Sitara and I’ll join you in a minute. Maurice has been fantastic. Thank you again and we’ll see you soon.

Morris Miselowski: [00:21:56] Be safe, be kind and be well everybody.

[00:22:00] Elliot Epstein: [00:22:00] To get in touch with Morris. He’s email address is ask him a question drop him a line.

Let him know what you think after what you’ve just heard. Morris conducts workshops all across the world with directors and sales directors, leadership teams talking about their sectors and what’s coming around the corner. So he’s a good guy to get in touch with. Plus he has a great head for radio.

I’m still running my workshops on sales development, helping people wing pitchers, so I get in touch if you’d like me to work with your team and keep those deals coming in. Remember, your ears are safe. Morris and I both wore masks during this entire podcast. Take care of yourselves. Till next time. [00:23:00]

What Now / What Next {Webinar}

Which Jobs are COVID-19 proof
What does the future job market hold?

Listen to the webinar or read the transcript below:

Recorded live Monday 13th April 2020

We are not living in unprecedented times

It’s true we have never seen this level of global pandemic before and our response to it is unique and profound, but humans have lived through great tragedies before: Bubonic  Plague (200 million died), Smallpox (56 million died), Cholera (6 million died), HIV (35 million died).

Not for a second am I making light of our past or current human tragedies, or forgetting the human toll it has and is inflicting.

But rather I’m actively choosing to get myself through today and tomorrow by acknowledging what is happening, do all I can do to keep myself and others safe and healthy and importantly hanging on to the one beacon of light we have that there has been precedent for mass tragedy and that after each seemingly overwhelming impossible-to-overcome tragedy we have collectively and individually forced ourselves to refocus, overcome, rebuild, and continue on, because there simply was / is no better choice.

And we will do it again!!!!

We will start right now, by acknowledging the fear that has overcome us all, grieving for who we might have been, had and become had it not been for Covid-19 and then re-purpose all of this negative energy by turning it into a powerful beacon of positive hope in search of better times ahead.

In tonight’s webinar David Southwick MP Member of Caulfield and I explore
what better times may look like including:
* the view and opportunities ahead
* what a post Covid-19 job and business world may look like
* the current and post Covid-19 hidden job markets and industries
* why a diversified task, job, career and business portfolio is the only way to future proof your income
* a 5 week plan guaranteed to get you back on track and ready for whatever post Covid-19 opportunities are ahead.

Watch the webinar:


[00:00:00] David Southwick: [00:00:00] well, good evening everyone, and thanks for tuning in.

What now? What next? Uh, just before I get onto it, I get into what with Morris. I wanted to just, I stopped by. Uh, thanking everybody for all the great, uh, wishes that you’ve provided to me over the last weeks. And, and also thank everybody for the work and efforts that we’ve all put in during what is a hugely tough time for all of us.

It’s unprecedented what we’ve all been going through. Um, one thought at the back of, you know, January coming in after, after, um, seeing in the 20, 20 that we would have been in such a situation that we’re currently. But, uh, but these, these, these things certainly bring the best out of all of us. And those, these are really good at sticking together and, and, and giving, um, giving one another support.

And I think that’s what we’re saying. And, uh, and well done to everybody. Uh, what we’re proposing to do with these lives is we’re looking at [00:01:00] having a Radler Monday night fishing. And, uh, basically we’ll give this to go ideally on Monday nights at seven o’clock. I’d be really interested in those, watching him tonight, whether that is the time that foods, if you are happy with that, just send me a message and say, yay, great.

If you think about another alternative, let me know as well. They are the rules for these chats. Uh, what we’re planning on doing is they will be business focused. That will be opportunity driven. Uh, we have got enough negativity going on in the world. Uh, we’ve had a heap of it more than any of us can imagine.

And so the idea about these particular talks will be very much about, not problems, but opportunities. There’ll be about very much what we can do going forward. Uh, they will be not political. Uh, and that will be my one rule in my day is political. Everything that I do is political, but this is all about opportunity.

It’s about looking forward [00:02:00] and it’s about how we can help one another going forward. Post coven 19. And so I thought the best person that I could have thought to do something like this  Morris Miselowski and I have worked together in the past, the business days of, of a whole range of different collaborative activities.

And I thought maybe we’d bring the band back together. So we’ve done that tonight and Morris  was going to join me in future talks. Uh, we have special guests along the way to get a broader understanding about, you know, what lies ahead. Uh, what are the opportunities now and what are opportunities into the future?

  Morris Miselowski is a business futurist. he’s business is called Eye on the future. Uh, Morris, how long has that business been going for?

30 years. So you probably know a little bit about what you’re talking about. Let’s just say, and we were talking before that you’ve traveled the world. You’ve been giving talks on stages in [00:03:00] countries far and wide, uh, and presentations in many corporate boardrooms. But my very first question to you, Morris is, what is a business futurist?

And does a business futurist ensure that you’ll be able to provide the weekly Tesla lotto numbers.

Morris Miselowski: [00:03:17] Tlet’s see. But I haven’t been able to so far, even in thirty years. But look, a business futurist is somebody who has a pragmatic view of what’s likely to come up ahead.

It’s not about being clairvoyant. It’s not about being particularly clever. I’m managed to spend every moment of every day thinking about what’s ahead, visiting all sorts of universities and tech hubs, talking to all sorts of people, working in and out of universities. Really immersing myself in what might be ahead.

To me, it’s a conversation about what vet industry, that client, that person might see ahead in advance of them actually seeing it. So in many ways, I’m like a scout, you know, they send me off ahead to figure out what might be there so that they can get ready for it. And my [00:04:00] clients use my services to be able to position their products, their services, their people, and whatever they need to do ahead of the marketplace and needing it so that when marketplace realizes there’s a need there, they’re ready to go.

That’s a broad thing, and I’ve done about 160 industries in my time. I’ve looked at many, many areas. And before to go on to the next question, I don’t want to take you to task on one thing so far in the opening. And you know, I do this often when we get together. It’s the word unprecedented. Yeah. And how it’s been thrown around.

And you know, my bugbear about getting stuck on words, cause I think words are really powerful. The words that we use and the thoughts that we have really dictate the vision and the dream that we might think about or want to have for the future. And the reason I say it’s not unprecedented is not because what we’re going through, we’ve seen before because we haven’t, it’s terrible.

It’s terrible, I don’t make light of it in any way whatsoever. But I do take the task unprecedented because as human beings, you and I, unfortunately going back through millions [00:05:00] of years have seen tragedy on this planet. We’re seeing bubonic plague. We’re seeing smallpox, we’ve seen cholera, we’ve seen all kinds of things, devastate huge communities.

It’s different. It hasn’t been as global. The impact perhaps hasn’t been as well seen as it is today. But the reason I think it’s important to say that is because there is priestess. As humans, we have lived through the worst of times. We have seen what does worst of times have done to us. Jobs are falling away.

People have died. Families have disappeared. Nothing good to be said about any of them, but the reality is, despite all of that, we’ve come back. Humanity has come back. There’s been a new world after that and we have gone on to create that world and to have better times, and that’s why I refuse to say it’s unprecedented because we know that there are better times ahead.

We’ve lived through tragedy before. We’ve survived some better, some worse.

David Southwick: [00:05:54] It’s interesting you say that because a, I was only chatting to a Holocaust survivor a few weeks back [00:06:00] and they presented the biggest amount of hope that one could ever imagine. Uh, when, when I said to them, you know, like, um, how you feeling at the moment, uh, how you deal with dealing with all of this?

And they said, look, . We’ve seen the worst, and from what we’re saying and what we’re able to get through, we know that we’ll definitely be able to get through this. And it’s only a matter of time that we’ll be able to say the, the happy times ahead. So I think you’re absolutely right, Morris  it’s about looking, um, positively.

Um, we have had certainly challenges. Um, yeah. Uh, this one a little bit unusual, if you like, and certainly one that none of us, none of us ever predicted, was going to have a, not even a business futurist.

Morris Miselowski: [00:06:44] I don’t from a moment walk away from any of that, Dave. I mean, what we’re going through is terrible.

It’s absolutely terrible, but it is the mindset that we need to have, I think, to move this forward, you know, with your savings and to, as a first, as a first generation survivor of the Holocaust, meaning I wasn’t there, my parents worked, but I [00:07:00] was brought up with their mindset. I’ve been told since day one that there’s always a future.

There’s always a better tomorrow than there was yesterday. Even when we didn’t have, didn’t need, didn’t understand, didn’t know what tomorrow looked like. There was always the opportunity of shaping a tomorrow. That was different. My parents were like that. Your family was like that. We all came to Australia to make this world our world a better world after those kinds of tragedies, but let’s move on anyway.

David Southwick: [00:07:24] Absolutely. So, so one of the main motivations for tonight topic about, um, jobs, jobs on the here and now and also into the future was actually inspired from my daughter, Paige, who is doing an assignment at the moment. And she was looking at the, uh, the future job market from a young person’s perspective.

And so, uh, I’ve actually got her.  contention of the talk that she’s about to give in a few weeks time fires him at school and she, she, she’d suggest that seems that a number of businesses have closed and many jobs will be [00:08:00] lost. The young people, unless they innovate and prepare for the future. She did start this with a bit of a diary saying, um, in 2020, uh, when we’ve seen finally the last of COBIT, so at December, 2020, she called it.

They flagged it. She, uh, she, she talks about a whole lot of jobs that have been lost. A whole lot of, uh, uh, businesses are being lost. People without the financial means that they’ve had before. And what next is what she put it. And her diary entry then talks about, um, particularly the types of jobs that young people would have.

The types of jobs that a university student might have that would be tuning in tonight. The type of job, whether it be a barista, whether it be, um, working behind a bar, whether it be, you know, working as I do. Um, currently we’re gonna insert Mac, certainly in retail where a lot of retail jobs, uh, no longer, um, we’ve talked about some [00:09:00] of have, but one of the things that she frames is 70% of businesses in the hospitality sector have reduced their hours.

And a young people up to 43% of those jobs. But young people have a no longer being. Some will bounce back many word.

Morris Miselowski: [00:09:18] What


David Southwick: [00:09:18] your thoughts around particularly the jobs for young people that would certainly help them in supplying the income while they’re at uni or while they’re doing something else and, um, and, and what we’re experiencing right

Morris Miselowski: [00:09:32] now.

So, so many conversations they have and we’re going to spend the next little while. I’ve got some lists for you jobs that I think are still around and still viable jobs that will be around as soon as we get past this next phase, and also careers and jobs that I think will disappear. So I want to come to that specific list in just a couple of moments with you when we travel through and have a space and have a really good deep dive into what they may be.

But can I give you a more general framing to start with of how I see the [00:10:00] near future. Of this world and especially Australia. Yeah. Our reality is quite stark and I’m not a person normally talks that way. We have 2.3 million businesses in Australia at the moment, or we had before. This was February, 2020 my take on it is the 12% or 276,000 businesses will not come back.

They just won’t survive. A number of them were having difficulty before. A number of them have been impacted by this and number will decide it’s all just too much and they’ll move on. Some will find better opportunity elsewhere, but that’s a huge amount of displacement in the business landscape. When we talk about employment, we’ve got just over or we have again, sorry.

We had February, 2020 the abs told us we had just over 13 million people employed full time employment in Australia and around employment was sitting somewhere quite low. Fours and fives, I think for the next six months. Next 12 months, but six months for sure. We’re going to ride somewhere [00:11:00] around 30% unemployment.

Yeah. That doesn’t mean those people will not have jobs because I think maybe a half off. In other words, I think there’s about. 10 12% unemployment is what the figures will show, but the reason I’m up to 30 is because many people will be left in a position or a job they’re not quite comfortable with, don’t want to be in, they’re underutilized, they’re not fully using their capacity, or they’re doing something they just don’t want to be in at all.

So they’re not in a happy place, not in a happy workload. So it’s going to take us a while to work through all of this to get back to the equilibrium. That we’ve kind of been used to in Australia because we have had a very good run and I hope we’ll continue into the future. That’s the first start landscape.

I think we need to admit. The other reality for me, and again, this is my, this is only my view, by no means am I an expert in this goal. I mean like everybody else, I’ve learned about this disease. I’m in the last three or four months, but everything I’ve read, everybody I’ve spoken to around the planet kind of tells me the consistent message.

That [00:12:00] this is a weakest link event, meaning fat, until the last person is immunized until we figured out what to do. This will remain with us for quite a period of time. So our conversation tonight is not necessarily just about this period that we’re going through, but I think the reality that we will go through similar, better, worse, longer, deeper periods down the track and depending on how we react and what we achieve now.

Will really be about, we’ll show us what those future landscapes may be. We

David Southwick: [00:12:29] had a conversation, we had a conversation the other day, and we both actually land on the same thing of these period is a bit like a mourning process in which, uh, you kind of, you’re waking up and you’re grieving. Your, your, your workout.

Well, what next? What am I doing? I mean, is that kind of where you would see things that now, you know, we need to be able to get over this to get our heads clear so we can move on.

Morris Miselowski: [00:12:52] So that’s exactly it. What I haven’t heard a lot about is the exactly as you just said, but we are going through a grieving process.

We had a loss. The loss [00:13:00] was us. It was who we are, what we saw ourselves as being, and what our future would be. That’s been taken away from us. It doesn’t mean we won’t have one, but we had a dream. And that dream’s been interrupted. So we need to get through that period. We need to allow ourselves the time and give ourselves permission to mourn a little bit.

And then when we get past that, and it may take some people longer than others, but when we get past all through that, when you start considering who we want to be after this phase, I really talk about it and it’s, it’s a rule of thumb I’ve used for forever is who we were before. We know now, before coven, we know who we were and what we did.

We also now have an understanding of what we might have to be in order to survive this. And we’re rolling with the punches literally as we’re told or asked to do things or the world changes around us. And that is really for us only to react. But the last thing, the thing that you and I are talking about tonight and in future weeks, is who do we want to become.

After this event, who do we want to [00:14:00] be post covert 19 and this is an opportunity to press a reset and reboot for all of us in our personal lives, in our financial lives and our business lives. It’s not easy and not for a moment that my pretending it is, but we will have to reinvent who we want to be.

And why don’t we try and reinvent the most glorious possibility if we want to be.

David Southwick: [00:14:20] So if you’ve just joined us, I’m talking to  Morris Miselowski who’s a business futurist, and we’re discussing tonight, um, jobs, the opportunities for here now and into the future. Yeah. And at the very end of these talk, I know Morris is going to give us some tips in terms of what is the practical strategies that we can take away from this to get, you know, employment effectively tomorrow in five days and in a few months.

So the real, the real, if you like, as we would call it, tactless the real, real stuff that we can apply in our daily lives. Morris, one of the things that, uh, that really hit me pretty [00:15:00] hard was. A call that I had about four weeks ago. Well, every day has been a call from businesses that have been struggling, not being able to pay the bills, um, businesses closing business and not paying their laces.

I had a call from, uh, action event, which provide a lot of the, uh, the, the industries in, in amusement rides that you would say at school fetes and the Royal Melbourne show and what have you.

Morris Miselowski: [00:15:25] Well, I went down and these are the thing. And uh, it was interesting actually seeing what they were doing. And they have lost four to 6,000 jobs in their industry alone already.

David Southwick: [00:15:36] Uh, one of the examples was a Ferris wheel. One of the businesses had taken delivery from, it was on the ship on the Wharf that, uh, that was $3 million worth that they had to pay $300,000 GST just to get that. Ferris wheel. I put it on a truck that would tie it to the Sydney show, and then all of a sudden [00:16:00] all the shows were off.

The Sydney show was off. I turned eyes, doesn’t show tracks back. And that was the end of that business. That business alone with a number of other businesses in the entertainment industry and are longer for the moment. Morris, where do you say those businesses. Fast forward post covered as either climbs the businesses that will bounce back because people need the smile on their face.

People need entertainment. They will need that joy back to their lives.

Morris Miselowski: [00:16:28] I think they will. I think we’re looking at it. I think we’re looking at the end of this year, maybe into next year, unless we can hasten things. And as we’re being told, the reality is, you said is that humans are herd animals. Who doesn’t?

H. E. R. D. we like to be together. We like to be in congregations, even though now we’re, we’re reaching virtually out to people. We want to physically be next to each other, and that’s why I think industries where we have human to human connection will definitely make a comeback and it won’t take too long for that to happen.

We’ll also have a [00:17:00] whole lot of industries on the comeback trail quite quickly because I referred to was revenge industries and revenge industry. For me, and I love that word, is really like our new year’s Eve resolution. You know, we all stand there at 1155 on new year’s Eve and we say, next year I’m going to lose weight.

I’m going to grow my hair back, I’m going to do something else, and we make that promise to ourselves. I bet. I know I am. I’m sure you are, Dave, and all of our listeners have all made a promise to themselves of what they’re going to do after covert, as soon as we’re allowed to do whatever it is that needs to be done.

The reality is those revenge industries will be things like restaurants. There’ll be things like hospitality, there’ll be things like going to an event, going out with people, perhaps having a haircut, perhaps doing the things that we weren’t in. We weren’t allowed to do now. So the first rung, and it will last for about, well, definitely from a day one of course, I think it will last about a month or so.

We will find a huge increase. In those rivers, in those revenge industries, things that we can quickly go back. The proof were kind of normal. Again, [00:18:00] we’ve got that little bit of quality of life and perhaps your Ferris wheel might take a little bit longer because it involves many people being together, and I’m not sure what that will look like until many people can get together, but where we can have one, two, three, or four, and where we can have things like our restaurants open, I think those things will come back first and that’s where we’ll see our revenge.

And again, talked about the, said it already. We’re getting to a list very quickly now of the sorts of other industries that are likely to ride very quickly as we move through the next weeks and months.

David Southwick: [00:18:30] Uh, we’ve had, uh, had a question in from Chantelle and Chantelle says, during the challenging times, businesses have had to adapt, downsizing or moving stuff of thought.

Morris Miselowski: [00:18:42] How do you say business

David Southwick: [00:18:43] operations  after these pandemic, for example, businesses realizing they’re required fewer staff than before it produced the same outputs or businesses moving to an online platform rather than a bricks and mortar structure, which is a great question. And, um, I [00:19:00] think what I’d say also the Shantelle is, and businesses who before would say that everyone has to be in the actual place of employment.

And now people being able to work from home. Offers a whole new, interesting paradigm. And I know certainly in our business, in, in, in, um, in our electorate, my staff are working from home and I think it’s actually working quite

Morris Miselowski: [00:19:22] well. Well, Dave, sit back. We’re about to spend the next 12 hours going back over history because you and I for about 12 years, have talked about the reality of today.

Look as a business future. It’s a thing that I hear all the time on stage in boardrooms, in the media is we can’t do it. We have legacy systems. This is the way it’s always been done. It’s too difficult to dismantle. It’s a great idea to go online, but it’s not for us. Look at how quickly we’ve moved into that space.

All the things we said we couldn’t do. We did because we were forced to do them and we did them so quickly. Literally overnight, we put the entire education, the health system online between the space of weeks. [00:20:00] Technology wasn’t invented to do any of this, by the way. It’s been there forever. It’s just that we as a collective have decided it wasn’t off merit to put time and effort into making it.

So now we all have lived experiences federal for worse of technology of online. We’ve realized it’s not the end of the world at all. So I’m moving forward. One of the things Shantelle that we’ll definitely have is a new blended world where we have physical and virtual and they both exist. There’s not really in the conversation about labeling them.

What we’re asking ourselves is where is the best place to do whatever we need to do and wherever the best place time to do either of those things or whatever those things are is where we will do them. The other thing Shantelle for me is it is a philosophy I’ve had for quite a long time, but now on absolutely sure.

When we, part of our landscape, and this is a rule of thumb and average rule of salmon, what I share with corporates and others moving forward, we’re going to have about 60% of our workforce that will be permanently attached to us. [00:21:00] So they will be the people that carry the call, the ethos, the soul, and the day to day work of a corporation.

The other 20% of the work is going to be done by technology and the technology we have today, of course includes our computers, artificial intelligence, robots and drones, and all the other things that we thought were the devil incarnate that we’re now learning are really only tools for us to use. And the last percent, the last 20% is contingent.

Itinerant or gig workers. In other words, people that we bring in specifically for their skills, they come and join us for as long as we’ve been needed and when needed, and then they go on and work for somebody else. So 60 20 20 is a rule that I think we’ll see a lot more of into the future. And it’s a rule that sustains us through these periods as well, because it means we can switch in and out of any of those three sectors have more or less of them as we need them.

David Southwick: [00:21:56] So, uh, and I know we’re going to get into some of the skills that, uh, [00:22:00] young people and us probably as all people, uh, will need going forward. And there’s some great opportunities, um, and some resources that you’re going to share with us shortly in terms of how people can be upskilling during these times.

Uh, what I wanted to have a quick look at now Morris’s some of the businesses at the moment that are currently struggling. Um, and then, uh, I know that you’ve prepared some lists that we can go through in terms of where are those businesses that or effectively the brain really hit hardest, um, from covered, where are the businesses that are actually adapting?

And then where are the, where are the opportunities ahead for future businesses?

Morris Miselowski: [00:22:37] So let’s have a look. So I’ve got, here’s one I prepared earlier, as I say, so here’s, here’s a series of slides that will take us through that, because those are the sitting there taking notes. Please don’t please sit back in the notes you’ll get from Dave after this.

I’ll send you a link and you’ll be able to have a look at all of these slides in more detail. So the slides will be available to you in the notes you get afterwards, but let’s have a chat about them and see the [00:23:00] jobs as jobs and industries, as you said, that are likely to rise, those that’ll fail on those that I think we should be jumping in right now.

Yeah. As an advance of doing these, I need to thank Dave Storton. He’s, this is basically his list that I have adapted, put together an incredibly wonderful list. So thanks to Dave for doing that. So. Let’s have a look. Firstly, at the industries that have been impacted by kind of a 19 I mean, these are the ones that have really been decimated and they won’t be many surprises in this.

The travel and tourism industry, of course, is one that is, has been decimated. I think, I mean, I know we’ll come back, travel and airplanes may take longer than other things. My thought is that we most probably will not travel overseas for a while, but what I’m seeing is, for instance, in Victoria that we most probably within three months, four months, again, not doing policy, that’s your big day, but my suggestion, whatever that period of time is, will most probably be allowed to have intra state.

In other words, we be able to travel within the [00:24:00] state and our first port of call will be all those wonderful places in Victoria. That we can travel and then we’ll go interstate and then eventually the borders will open up.

David Southwick: [00:24:07] Can, can I just add to that too? I mean, obviously we came off the other horror of the bushfires.

And a lot of those areas hadn’t or still haven’t recovered. They’ve got a fair way to go from that. So if there is anything that can be positive out of all of these, the opportunity to go back to many of those bushfire effected areas and to restart some of the tourism that’s really needed in some of those areas.

Morris Miselowski: [00:24:29] So if I’m right, local tourism, get ready. I can’t tell you what’s tomorrow because that’s up to governor. Tell us when we’re allowed to do it. It may be months away, but I’m fairly certain with our first port of activity will be local state traveling within our borders, so I think that will come back. But until then, of course, it’s a very difficult industry to be in.

Group events and activities, as you said, is one also. That’s fallen away. Hospitality’s falling away. Education as we know it has fallen away, but strangely enough, in the next few slides, [00:25:00] I’m going to argue that education is actually on the rise, but in very different ways than we had before. But the industry that we knew in February going backwards certainly is in decline.

Personal services, things like nails, hair, beauty, cosmetic surgeries, or things we’re putting off for another day. So we’ll take a while to come back. And many traditional retailers also, as we’ve seen, have either closed or even before this had begun to close permanently. So there are lots of industries that we know that will not come back, may not come back or come back very differently.

And that’s kind of what that list speaks to.

David Southwick: [00:25:38] And, um. In terms of some of those businesses that I feel like I’m being coded proof, if you like. So they’re continuing on.

Morris Miselowski: [00:25:47] So there are some things that we just have to do regardless of what happens around us. There are all sorts of things that we as a society need done. Of course, government funded services have to continue.

We rely on you and the government and others [00:26:00] to make sure that we’re safe, we’re healthy, and that our welfare is taken care of. As an aside, I think the police force, for instance, is one that’s going to see a huge increase in numbers. We know that they’ve been trying to recruit heavily for years. It’s been difficult to find enough people to go into the police force if history is right after every major calamity, going back about 200 years in history after war and famine and disease.

We tend to find that to be a huge upswing in people entering the police force. One because it’s a career. It’s a steady career. It’s offered by the government. And two, because they want to give back to society. They feel that they’ve somehow been advantaged by what they went through society looking after them and sharing.

They now want to do the same. So I’m guessing police will actually bolster their numbers quite significantly in the next six, 12 months.

David Southwick: [00:26:50] And just on that, Morris, I think you know. Obviously these businesses will continue and bouts, and certainly when you talk about some of the government, uh, [00:27:00] services like policing.

You’re absolutely right. But where, where I would see a lot of this coming from is the way we go about things may very much differ. So we’re, we’ve had product covered this whole, uh, lack of respect of policing. Uh, there’s obviously, uh, some heavy handedness that’s been required in terms of getting people to do the right thing and follow things.

I think we’re actually move the other end beyond these two more community policing, having police. Enact communities back to the old fashioned, uh, policing place on the streets, uh, place. Being able to be there to help one another in policing schools. So it provides a whole range of opportunities to be able to connect place aimed a L Mitzi service of closer to where the people are.

So yeah, we’d probably say that in a lot of other areas, areas as

Morris Miselowski: [00:27:49] well. I would agree. And the purpose of these lists, Dave, as you said earlier when we introduced it, is not just to run through the list. What you and I and everyone that’s watching, listening now is trying to do, is [00:28:00] figure out how do we fit into this?

What skills, tasks? Talk more about that in a couple of moments too, but what skills or tasks to we have that we might be able to use in one of these industries? How can we shift or take advantage. That’s how I want us to look at these lists. Really. What does it mean for us? How will it impact on what we might be able to do?

So utilities, of course, I’m not going to disappear. We need the electricity, our gas, and our solar. The construction and building industry infrastructure will be evermore important, not only because we need it, but because it is a huge employer. It’s one of those things that speaks to the future. It gives us a direction and gives us employment.

So we’ll, we definitely have seen the ad. They have continued and will continue. I think we’ll have to see more of those big, big opportunities coming around. One that’s specific to this time. His technology, software businesses, and for me it’s really about those working from home. But you and I are now using zoom.

Zoom has moved into the thing of being a, now it really has [00:29:00] become a word of default, like Xerox or like Google, but these technologies that we’re using at home as we bring our businesses together, individuals coming together online were never really built for this volume. They weren’t built to do this.

We’re just using them for that. With these lived experiences that we are now having. I can tell you there are thousands, tens of thousands of people out there who are coding at the moment who are figuring out, well, this tweak, that business, this app, that thing would actually work really well in these circumstances.

And as we said, as businesses shift to this blended environment of part physical, part virtual, those new tools, those new apps, those new possibilities will definitely be off the system. The other thing behind this is that I’m. Absolutely certain that out of covert 19 as horrible as it may sound, we will find our next billionaire and maybe more than one bit in there, somebody well come up with a concept of business, an idea, a methodology that we think is [00:30:00] incredible and they will grow a business around it.

It could be any one of us listening. So again, that’s the opportunity of tonight and again, as you can see, local manufacturing is one of them, as is mining and resource.

David Southwick: [00:30:12] Interesting. Uh, at the moment we’re saying so many businesses in the, in the, uh, local manufacturing with, uh, various forms of hand sanitizers and what have you.

Uh, I don’t know how many businesses are spray up there, but having said that, uh, is somebody that had a health and beauty business product politics. I think there’s going to be call for this going forward. People’s personal hygiene will be an important thing, um, out of one of the, uh, one of the outcomes of all of these.

And so those people that have rushed off and doing that, then, um, then I think, you know, that will, that will certainly continue it. And also locally, we’ve seen some opportunities. I know a clothing business manufacturer fell a Hamilton. Which is probably known to many people that are listening [00:31:00] tonight. A fellow Hamilton have now gone into, um, producing PPA, um, uh, gear for, um, the many of the nurses and what have you, um, scrub, scrub, uh, uh, gear.

So that’s allowing them to evolve into a new market while also being able to keep people employed. And

Morris Miselowski: [00:31:19] that that is so important that that’s remanufacturing. That’s the notion and which is something that I’m loving and had something I’m hoping we will carry on. Again, I said to you though, that I’ve heard for so many decades, we can’t, we don’t, it’s not what we do.

It’s not what we have and what we’ve seen in the last two months is the will that really doesn’t matter. The question, the more important thing to answer is what can we do with what we have? And fella Hamilton’s a really good example, as are lots of others who have taken their production lines and thought, well, what we’ve done really isn’t all that necessary at the moment, but we’ve got the cleverness.

We’ve got the logistics of being able to do lots of things. What could we do right now that we can take advantage of? And manufacturing [00:32:00] needs to come back to Australia on that mindset. Yes. What we did before was important. Yes, there might be a marketplace, what we already manufacture, but what else can we do that might make a huge difference that could bring in the next industry for us?

David Southwick: [00:32:14] Absolutely. And moving that list out to, um, to some of the businesses that . We’ll grow and move forward. The opportunities.

Morris Miselowski: [00:32:23] Yeah, so this is, this is a list. I mean, the list goes on and I know it’s very small writing and again, you’ll have the link. I like the fact that small writing, because it means it’s so long.

I’ve heard a lot of doom and gloom and yes there is. And I know people who’ve lost jobs. We’ve said all of that, but there are still jobs out there. There are still things that we can do. Can I spend just a moment talking about the mindset behind this and then move on to the list itself? So to me, I think for many of us that our careers need to go on a temporary hold.

I know that’s a difficult message, and I’m not saying forever. I’m saying on a temporary hold because I’ve said to you already that [00:33:00] we are mourning for who we are. Some people will be lucky enough to ride this through with their existing career with very, very little change. But for many of us that won’t be true.

So that Korean needs to go on hold and we need to think more about the immediacy of what we’re doing, who we are, and what we can do. And that’s why I think we move away from careers temporarily. We might even move away from jobs temporarily because a job is a nine to five connotation of having somebody else give us enough work to fill in a week that we then exchanged for money again, if we can get that, that’s terrific.

But the mindset for us, and I think moving forward, I’ve actually said this for many, many years, but especially now, is that we have to consider ourselves our own small business. We have to be task oriented. Our own small business means we can work for somebody else. We can still be what we were before, but the way we think our mind takes us to, what skills can I sell.

Retail. In other words, what skills do I have that can come [00:34:00] together as a job that gets me to the traditional nine to five if that’s what I want. But what jobs do I have to wholesale? What tasks do I have to wholesale? In other words, if I’m an accountant, but I really love gardening, but I’ve never made money out of it.

You, but my garden’s incredible. I’m not now in this period of time, look for some gardening, or maybe I do some delivery, or maybe I slipped something and I sell it in Etsy and we’ll have a look at those in a couple of moments too. So we really need to strip ourselves back, strip ourselves back, career on hold for those that where that’s necessary.

Jobs look for them, and they may be around, but more difficult to find. But the thing that you and I can control where we have our own small business is to look for tasks, go into spaces, and see if there’s single activities that we can make money from. And maybe down in the last an hour or two, and we’ve got to find something else and we’ve got to stitch it together.

It’s the Copeland’s. Of having a, of having a financial portfolio. If you go to anybody, again, not giving advice, but if you go to anybody that I think is solid, [00:35:00] they’ll tell you to spread the risk. Put some in shares, summon some in money, some in property maybe, but share the risk. That’s what this is about.

Sharing the risks. That you’ve always got a possibility, a way to make some income, and not just income, but you also want to keep alive and active. You also want to keep your mind stimulated. That’s just as important in these times. So going back to my list, these are not meant to be careers necessarily.

They’re not even meant to be jobs, but they’re opportunities. These are things that are riding that I know is still looking for people looking to make money and they need people with a task mentality to come in and join them for as long or as short. As by seeing necessary. So with that in mind, let’s move on.

David Southwick: [00:35:43] So Morris, basically what you’re saying is, uh, years back, we used to talk a about, uh, that we would outsource everything, you know, that we would be any, in fact, one of the great books that I read back in 2014 with, uh, something by Jeremy Rifkin called zero marginal [00:36:00] cost and zero marginal cost talks a lot about, uh, that we’ll get to a point with artificial intelligence and with robots and all the rest of it.

Where.  spicy chores will be done by effectively robots. We will be able to use our time in, um, in specific types of tasks, and we would charge that out. We would contract ourselves out, and the traditional five day a week job would not no along the Bay. And we would effectively work in whatever hours.  we want to do in a contract scenario.

So are you suggesting that that that contractual, that outsource I worked for us is something that we should be considering right now? And where does that lead in terms of that particular opportunity going into the future?

Morris Miselowski: [00:36:48] So I think it’s absolutely something, but I’ve said that for years. I think we’ve always had to look at it.

The deadly, the important thing is that the future you and I are creating, we’re all creating. Listening to this is not where one size fits all. There will be [00:37:00] lots of people that will prefer and industries that would also prefer the nine to five model, and that makes perfect sense for them. We have emergency service people that need to work in a particular way, in a particular manner, in a particular place.

So. So I don’t ever want to live in a world where we’re totally prescriptive, which is kind of what we’ve had for the last 150 years. One model fits all. What we’re allowing ourselves to do is really not to loosen that up and to be more concerned about output. Input. So we’re really looking at the task or the jobs that have to be done.

We’re admitting that adults are doing them. We’re making them responsible for what needs to be done, and we’re measuring them by how it’s been done at the end, not by the input. So I’m talking about a reality where a number of people will work in this. Portfolio away and have a myriad of income streams.

Some people will permanently want to be part of this gig or transitory workplace, and others, quite rightly, will prefer the nine to five. All of that is possible, but right now, today, for me, the [00:38:00] answer is that if we don’t have the luxury of those other things and many of us don’t, but really what we owe ourselves is to explore the task world, that world of contingent worker and see if we can make that full.

Now. Works for us. So, so if you were in

David Southwick: [00:38:14] a situation where you’re out of work, uh, the job that you had yesterday is no longer here today, thanks to the pandemic, we’re all experiencing, what would be the first place that you would send someone that could potentially take them to utilize a skill that they may have.

Or where would they go to be able to acquire a skill that they may need.

Morris Miselowski: [00:38:36] Okay, so first, can I take it back just one step? To answer your question, each of us needs to answer an earlier question and

David Southwick: [00:38:43] we want to go off this green, Morris, so we get you on the broader thing. Perfect.

Morris Miselowski: [00:38:50] Alright. So the first thing is that we need to really come back a step and ask ourselves, what is it that we do?

What, what? What are our tasks? What is it that we can go [00:39:00] on and sell to other people? And that’s a really important activity. Can I say that for most of us, what we’re talking about is the normal on the Monday and the things that we thought we would never be able to sell. In fact, we can drive a car. It means at the moment that.

Domino’s is looking for and so many other people to deliver food. No, it’s not what many of us have dreamed about for our lives. It’s certainly not what we’ve talked to our children about longterm. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t fit into everybody’s career model, but right now, the fact that you can drive a car, I mean, you should be looking inside of industries that are looking for people to deliver that whole logistics space.

If you’re able to communicate, if you were somebody who was in customer service, somebody perhaps on an airline or somebody that was a receptionist, what you need to be out, what you need to take out of that is your core skill is a human to human contact and see if there are call centers or places that can use that skill in a different way.

Again, you’re not looking for the lifelong commitment. You’re not looking for absolutely being happy every time you hang up the phone. Or every time you come [00:40:00] home. And I know that’s not a joyful thing to say for us, but this is not a joyful time. We’re making compromise all the way through. So my answer to you, they firstly is figure out who we are.

Figured out, literally do an audit skill of all the mundane things that you can do. And they’re not mundane except to you. I mean, everybody else thinks they’re extraordinary. And then look for industries like the list we had up before those industries that use those skills and then begin either to make direct contact with them.

Literally direct contact or go back into the seeks and others. But I’m finding the Sikhs and all the others, as wonderful as they are and they are, are more towards jobs and careers, not charged. So it’s

David Southwick: [00:40:39] like, could I just the example of this, cause I think that’s totally spot on. What happens in these times is people will look for any kinds of flexibility.

So where you may not be able to get through the door in, in, in presenting something before that opportunity is now presenting itself because people are desperate. People want to keep their businesses going. [00:41:00] So, uh, for an example, if a business that may not, I know you, you had a conversation with me before that a business, uh, cafe wasn’t in takeaway food.

I have moved, their business seems to take away,

Morris Miselowski: [00:41:13] okay.

We have frozen Dave.

So Dave, I think is frozen for the moment, will unfreeze himself. The example he was giving you was one of the hospitality businesses I become aware of in the last few weeks. It’s a business name that you and I all know, and it was primarily one that we went to for experience very upmarket. They decided a little bit after everybody else, about two weeks after everybody else started to do deliveries that they would go into delivery.

And over the last few weeks, I’ve been making some serious dollars and employing people again into producing the takeaway meals. Quite an incredible shift [00:42:00] in the world and the way that they operate and the money that they’re able to make. So. The reality is the, what we need to do right now is to look at the world slightly differently.

Again, come back to our skill, our core skills of who we are and what we are and what we might be able to do and begin to look at some of the ways that we can do it. So to go back to that list. So we talked about before, and again, if you want this list, it’ll be in the link with the notes as they come out.

They come to you afterwards. But there are things like online stores now that are growing. We have virtual consulting. We have doctors who are beginning to understand what they might have to do to offer e-health. We have tech tools and software that are riding around. We have lots of people sitting at home at the moment who are looking at ways that they can improve their homes.

David Southwick: [00:42:52] Oh, I lost you for a minute, but I think we’re back.

Morris Miselowski: [00:42:55] I was tap dancing for your day, so I was talking about, I finished off your example [00:43:00] and we were just having a look at the list again, just to get one or two of the sorts of industries for the things we were talking about where you might rightly go knock on the door.

Or say to them, he didn’t think of me before, but I could do this for you and that would be helpful for both of us.

So we have all sorts of different industries there. As you can see, logistics is a growing one book selling. Even though the retail stores have closed, many of them have gone online and now delivering bike shops and making an absolute Motsa at the moment. Lots of people are back on their bikes. So again.

Take this list when you get the link and have a look through it and ask yourself the questions, do you have skills that you could sell into this space? Are there things that you can offer to these sorts of businesses?

David Southwick: [00:43:53] Sorry, I’ve lost her. Damn. So I’m back now. .

Morris Miselowski: [00:43:59] The main thing is you’re [00:44:00] back with is Dave never liked the reason you, sorry. We’re having a look. Then we had to look at the previous list and has some of those examples and when that we were going to talk now about the next phase, whenever that next phase is a month, two months, three months, whenever we begin to loosen the shackles a little bit and we get let out of our homes and we all run out like crazy people and we start to begin again to refashion and remold the world.

And these are the industries you and I talked about as being most probably the first rank, the first off the cab rank of industries. That might be, but we might start spending it again.

David Southwick: [00:44:37] Uh, just said, uh, somebody no. M Rose and made a very good point. Just as she said, not political, but we need an NBN upgrade.

Uh, I’ve got to agree with her on that one. Sorry. Keep going.

Morris Miselowski: [00:44:48] I have no comment. Otherwise we will be here till midnight job jobs into the future jobs that we might be looking at after [00:45:00] this thing moves into its next phase where we become more communal. Again, I’ve said a lot of these are going to be revenge jobs.

I wasn’t going to be things that we’ve needed to do. So if you’re in this space, it’s not necessarily going to help you put food on the table today, but I asked you to keep up. The smile because we will come back to you as soon as we can for these types of things. So being ready for us when we do I, it’ll be difficult.

I know that for some of us, we had to shadow. We’ve had to hibernate. We’ve had to let people off. All of those things might be necessary to get us through today, but for tomorrow, you’ve got to be prepared in as many ways as possible for what will be a return. And you can see there, my list includes removal list.

It includes repairs and maintenance, which we’re all looking around our home and asking ourselves, you know, when can we get to them or the car. I mean, once we start using our cars again, it’s mean a whole lot of people that need their car serviced again. And going back to yours, lipstick and beauty supply, Dave, just for you, I think that’s an industry that we’ll go back into.

[00:46:00] We want to put a bit more glamour into our lives and spruce ourselves up a bit. We’ve also got things like delivery services, payday lending, lots of jobs, lots of job industries. Again, purposes. Do we have the task capability of adding something to these businesses? Can we go knocking on their door and saying, look, I’m Morris, I’m ready to do this thing for you.

This is why you need it, and I’ve got the skillset to be able to make that happen for you. How do we collaborate in this time to get us both through it?

David Southwick: [00:46:29] Yeah. Um, T cherry, uh, asked a very important question as well about, um, uh, what we’re talking about with advice of going and looking for a job. And this is the one for me actually is illegal to go around looking for work.

And it’s a good point in terms of we’ve got our directives in terms of what we are and I, and, and, and able to do at the moment. Um, well, I, my thoughts on this would be, um, certainly. If you’re going to a workplace, you know, to have an interview to [00:47:00] get a job, then that’d be pretty, pretty clear to me that, uh, that, that the intended the attendees to get word.

So, um, I personally don’t think that there would be an issue, uh, and that you would be able to do that. So that would be my point to Jerry. Go for it. Um, we need you out there. We need you employed. I’m obviously doing it following all the other rules that we’ve got. Um, and providing, you’re following those rules, then I think, you know, for somebody that’s going at, uh, for a job interview to get a job, then we need all that right now.

And if there was an opportunity present, you’d go after it.

Morris Miselowski: [00:47:36] And remember the virtual world, the one you and I are using right

David Southwick: [00:47:38] now.

Morris Miselowski: [00:47:39] So beforehand, Jerry might, we might’ve felt a bit uncomfortable making a call, organizing a FaceTime or what, or a Skype call. Now it’s extremely business as normal. So both, both are absolutely available to you.

You need to find the right tool at the right time for the right person you want to contact.

David Southwick: [00:47:56] Absolutely.

Morris Miselowski: [00:47:57] All right. So, um. Well

[00:48:00] David Southwick: [00:47:59] conscious of the time, and we’ve got so much to talk about and our people have been asking a whole lot of questions are tuning in. And for those that have just joined us, I’m talking to Morris who is a business futurist.

Morris is going to be my guest as a regular weekly Monday nights at 7:00 PM so if you’ve missed tonight, then certainly we’ll get you back next week. For those that have missed it. Next week’s guest is going to be Judith David, who is Thai site psychologist. And she’ll be talking about the, uh, mindfulness and the positive mindset and, uh, another, that’s something that you find is an important thing, Morris, that we’ve got to have the right attitude, um, particularly in these times.

Do you, do you want to comment about that?

Morris Miselowski: [00:48:45] Well, I think it’s integral. We started that conversation by saying that, and I’ve kind of peppered this whole conversation by reinforcing that, but the realities that you and I, the human makes a decision and we can sit and wallow and it’s, it’s very easy to do that.

And of course [00:49:00] I would see why we could be doing that, but the only way we’re going to move forward is collectively, it is our mindset. It’s our ability to understand and to accept that what we’re going through now is terrible and that many of us are facing calamity and issue. But none of us ever wish on anybody else.

All of that’s a given. Don’t make light of that for a second, but the thing I know, and I’ve spent 20 years as a crisis counselor, is that until we begin to see a future, there isn’t one. Until we begin to believe that there is a future, there is a possibility. The light on the end is not a train coming on.

It literally is a light at the other end. That’s when we start to make progress. And next week, Dave, I’m hoping we can pick up on that. And really come down to a conversation of what it means to have that positive attitude and to take wellness into it. This isn’t an add on anymore. This is very much part of our lives.

It’s, it is self preservation. And only from that can we then begin to rebuild our jobs careers.

David Southwick: [00:49:57] Now, I did promise, uh, those that have been [00:50:00] listening, uh, that at the very end of that talk tonight, we would be able to provide some real tips of what people could do. Uh, that would assist. They mean firstly skilling up.

And then secondly, uh, I know that, uh, you, as you say, um, some of the, um, the tasks, all the, all the plan going forward. I think the way you call it is, um, the, uh, your own strategy if you like, uh, of, you know, what now what next. And so do you want to firstly, give us some of the skills that people could be going after?

Morris Miselowski: [00:50:36] So I put the skills into two baskets. One is longterm, one is short term. The long term is the reality is, you said earlier in our conversation date, we know that most of the transactionary the repetitive tasks to go into technology, and we’ll continue to do that forever now. So those sorts of tasks that we might want to have done really aren’t all that purposeful for us.

I have said in my talks about careers of the [00:51:00] future is that our kids, apart from the wonderful skills that we want to give them and the harnessing of their aptitude and attitude is it’s the human skills that are going to continue to sell way into the future. It’s our ability to collaborate. It’s our ability to communicate.

It’s our ability to think creatively that is really going to move us and advance us. In our career or in our jobs or in our task placement. So I’ll get to the other skills in the moment. But for me, it is always been about the human skills because that’s what technology can’t replicate. That’s what technology can’t offer.

And I want our children to have. Longevity in their career. So I’m saying to them that they will have to most probably advanced, and they know that and change and adapt and they’re comfortable with that. But the thing that they will take from one employer to another that will get them those rights, get them to rise and get them the job of tomorrow is their ability to be human.

So let’s not forget that that’s really important. That’s step [00:52:00] one. Step two, of course. I’m asking people now to be more task oriented, to think about what they can do at the moment, to be able to put food on table, have their mind think, and gives them a possibility of seeing a future. And I would suggest that if we can, if you have some time available and lots of us do at the moment, is let’s learn a new skill, literally a single task.

There’s lots of free ways to do that. Lots of free things that we can do. You can, for instance, go into places like you to me. Or you can go into Coursera and again, there’s a list of these places. When you get the notes, you can go into universities, Australia or open universities. Lots of them are offering courses either for free or for very limited, very, very small amount of money.

Google also offer courses. Look up free courses. They don’t want to call it  in double O C is what the technical languages. But what they allow you to do is to study online with a whole lot of other people or all by yourself and learn a new skillset. [00:53:00] Now is a terrific time to be able to do that. And I’m talking hours.

I’m not talking months or years. I’m talking hours. Literally learn a new skill. Medina, learn a skill a new couple of days, spread it out and figure out what does you want to do. Upskill yourself. It’ll help both now and into your future career.

David Southwick: [00:53:17] Terrific. And so, you know, one of the things that people can do in the next two weeks, so what, what’s, what’s.

They get off this chat tonight and they say, right, well I’m fired up. I’m positive, I’ve got a positive attitude. And when I really grabbed the bull by the ones here and go forward, so what next?

Morris Miselowski: [00:53:34] So to me, I’ve taken it. I’ve taken a strategy that normally for me is a couple of years and condensed it down to five weeks.

I think that’s about as far out. Is we need to be thinking at the moment. This to me is a rolling strategy. As soon as there’s another announcement, as soon as there’s another constriction, or as soon as we’re allowed to do something, you have to go back to zero and start again. That’s really important because if we stop to think that we have set it in stone, then we’re only going to stumble and cause ourselves [00:54:00] how I’m at the other end.

So this is a rolling one. So to your point right now. If the were starting right now, number one is ensure your health, safety, and welfare. Nothing else makes any sense until you do that. Really make sure that you and your loved ones are as secure and safe as you can be. Have open conversations about mental health.

Are you okay? Can I do anything to help you and reach out to other people?

David Southwick: [00:54:23] Really inform you about that. Next week. And we’ll be talking about that as a gay element. Mixed word.

Morris Miselowski: [00:54:27] Absolutely. But until we do that, really nothing else makes sense. Then work through what you have and what you can do with what needs to be done.

So physically around your home. Do you know, do the audit, do we have enough food? We are not toilet paper? All that kind of stuff we’ve talked about from a career. What is your career? What is your job? What’s the situation of it? Now, I know you know the answer, but we’re being strategic now, so let’s actually voice it.

Let’s tell ourselves that at the moment on hold, it’s on hold for three months. I’m waiting for this so that we actually know how to measure and what the outcome might be, [00:55:00] and then begin your skill audit. So the skill ordered is what skills take apart your job description. Look at what is you enjoy doing, look at what activities you’re able to do with your hands, with your mind, and all sorts of other things.

And literally listed down. List down all the things that you love to do. Competent of will do if you have to and hate to do. But Gina, you know what, in the times now unprepared to do. List that out, and I know that sounds corny and a lot of work, but this is so important. Then work through the job finance and family.

What is, you’ve got to be realistic, you know, do you have two weeks? Do you have four weeks of saved money? Do you have two or four weeks of safe food? Can you, is there enough work around you at the moment to survive for a couple of weeks, a couple of months? You’ve really got to be honest with yourself.

Don’t need to tell anybody outside your door, but you need to be honest with yourself. And then rework your budget. So based on what you know and what you believe and what you think might happen, rework the budget two, three, six months. Continue to keep yourself and those around you safe, [00:56:00] and then begin to do what we talked about tonight.

Look for additional income streams. Once you’ve secured all of those things, you know what it is you want to do, what skill sets you have, then you begin to look five weeks out, two to five weeks. So reassess. Go through the list we’re done tonight. Go through our conversation, figure out the industries, the people around you, what you can do to start looking for work around tasks.

Shore up the job if that’s what you have worked with your current employer, and see what you might be able to go share what work you might be able to do. Look at other industries. Make context using network. Also begin to protect your finances. So I begin to look at the debts, whether you can put them on hold, do all those sorts of things.

One of the things that I would love you to do, and this is difficult, but it’s important, is work through the products. Not the more with what ifs, but the realistic what is, what if we have to continue like this for another two weeks, another four weeks, another six weeks, another eight weeks? How do I look at it as my job?

Look [00:57:00] as my tasks? Look, all of those are really important questions. It will tell you whether, how many tasks you looking for, how much money you’re looking for, what sort of work you want to do, and the rest of those activities. And I would also begin to develop personal and family plans for what’s next.

Don’t go back to what you did before. I don’t mean you shouldn’t go back to that industry or that thought process, but the world’s moved on. Spend this time to actively reimagine what the future looks like for you at your business or your work and your and your family. And lastly, five weeks. If we can get to five weeks day and we haven’t been able to for a couple of months, if we can get to five weeks, then we know we’re building a new normal.

We’re beginning to build a new normal. So assess your plan against that new normal, you know, is your job still around? Is your career still around? Did you enjoy working for tasks and wanting to go back what the finances look like? Begin to reassess budgets and goals? And the last point in that is create a new normal for [00:58:00] work and family.

You have to add, you have to, again, realize that what we had before, as good or as bad as it was, will not come back 100% the same way. So let’s verbalize, let’s actually plan as a family for what our future looks like. Who are we? What are we, how do we continue to communicate and live together as we have after the past few months?

And what does work life and love look like for all of us?

David Southwick: [00:58:24] So I think that is a really valuable, uh, listens and certainly tips for all of us. Uh, the thing that certainly comes to mind in the, uh, uh, tips that you’ve just provided, Morris, he’s flexibility, uh, that we need to be flexible in these times. We need to look for resources and we need to ask, and, uh, it’s, it’s probably the great place for us all sort of finish tonight, uh, by saying that.

Uh, I have had my offices head questions that I would have never imagined before. We have been inundated by people that are all [00:59:00] wanting help during these times. Um, and I would say to everybody out there that no matter who it is, certainly ring me at any time. We’ll provide whatever help that we can do.

everybody’s kind of really helping that during these times. So it’s the one thing that I think brings us back to say that. Uh, we’re all about helping one another app. And don’t be afraid to ask if you’re in an awkward spot right now. Uh, we all understand that this is a time that. It’s no one’s fault. You know, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re basically there and we’re just got to get ourselves through it.

So together we’ll, we’ll remain strong, but we’ve got to be United and fight this through. And I think the positive outlook of what you’re presented tonight is really what this is all about, Morris. And that’s what we want to be able to do over the coming weeks. This is not, as I said right from the very beginning about this, there is no such thing as a problem.

Only an opportunity, and these talks are going to be about opportunities. They’re going to be about hope. You’re going to be at our about [01:00:00] opportunities, and hopefully they’re going to be some kind of inspiration to be able to get us through some of these tougher times. Into the better times ahead. So thank you.

Thank you, Morris. Um, I will let you have a, have another word, but, um, I also wanted to remind people that, uh, is seven o’clock is good time for you. Just let us know if you’re thinking that’s how you like another time, let us know as well. But at the moment, we’re going to stick to seven o’clock on Monday night.

I know that a number of people are pre-questions through and we haven’t had a chance to answer them tonight. But I will get back and answer you, uh, during the course of, uh, of, of, of the coming, uh, day. And also, please direct message me. Please message me with any questions that you may not have wanted to ask publicly.

made a follow up privately. We’re heavily do that as well. And also remember that next week we’re going to have do to David is a psychologist. Look at, uh, looking at, um, positive mindset. [01:01:00] Mindfulness. Getting a, seem to the frame of mind, as Maura said before, to ensure that we’re supported. To show that we are, have our family supported, and that we’re able to be able to look through the eyes of, uh, of, of a positive, uh, positive future ahead.

Morris did you want to save a few words in finishing.

Morris Miselowski: [01:01:21] All I can say is did our . I mean, absolutely. If I can help in any way, please, please just reach out. I’m always on your phone call or an email away. Please feel free to do that. I’d also love you to continue talking during the week on Facebook and let’s talk about some of the great examples I’d love next week to share some live examples of ways that we are overcoming things that we’re able to do.

Tell us about your hero story. Right? How you were able to find that task or that job in this time. Love to share those examples. So please continue to share and David, around our awkward circumstance in this case, it just isn’t, it’s just, it’s just what we’re all going through, as you said. So all we can do is to ask for help.

If ever there was a time on the planet, you will get it. It’s [01:02:00] right now. So please, this week. Please this week begin to think about the future if you haven’t already, but in a way where you are able to craft it, you are, you absolutely are capable of achieving a very different future. We will get through this.

It will be difficult that the other end it is ups is absolutely up to you to decide who you want to be when you grow up.

David Southwick: [01:02:22] Thank you. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in. Uh, and thank you for many of the messages that have come through. Thank you to you, uh, Morris for the positive words of inspiration.

Uh, remember the, uh, the eyes on our future. What’s the website?

Morris Miselowski: [01:02:37] Your website? It’s business

David Southwick: [01:02:40] please visit Morris’s website and a lot of the content you’ll see tonight will be there, and also we’ll be sharing that with you as well. Thank you everybody. I look forward to catching up with you again, same time next week, seven o’clock on Monday.

In the meantime, if there’s anything my office can do in terms of what’s going on at the moment [01:03:00] or anything in more generally, please reach out. Thanks very much. Have a good evening.

Morris Miselowski: [01:03:04] Bye everyone.


Where the Jobs Are

Published: The Herald Sun (page 9) / Sydney Morning Telegraph, Saturday 11 April 2020

COVID-19 – Which industries and jobs are safe & which aren’t


Industries heavily impacted by the
Co-Vid19 Crisis?

  • Travel & Tourism – Airlines,
    Bookings, Entertainment, Hotels, Chinese Travellers, Luxury Goods, Transport
  • Group Events & Activities –
    Conferences, Expos, Sports, Arts, Weddings, Venues, Gyms
  • Hospitality & Small Group
    Activities – Pubs, Clubs, Casinos, Cafes, Bars, Restaurants
  • Education – Universities, Schools,
  • Personal Services Providers – Allied
    Medical, Dental, Nails, Hair, Beauty, Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoos
  • Most Retailers and many traditional
    “face to face” Businesses
  • All businesses and services directed
    to CLOSE DOWN by the Government

Businesses & Organisations that will
probably continue operating during Corona Crisis? (least affected industries)

  • OUTDOOR Industries like Farming,
    Infrastructure Construction, Building Services & Garden Maintenance,
  • INDOOR Services Businesses that can
    Work from Home like Software Tech Businesses, Professional Services, Allied
    medical and other Office Workers
  • ESSENTIAL Services needed for
    survival (see below)
  • GOVERNMENT Services

Industries will be LEAST Affected by the Corona Crisis downturn and their
employees who continue to earn a salary make good potential target markets
during the downturn

& Essential Industries?

  • Government Funded Services – health,
    police, defence, welfare, aged care, disability, transport, environmental
  • Utilities – Telco, Power (electricity/gas/solar),
    Water, Waste & Recycling
  • Construction & Building Projects
    (beware a property downturn)
  • Infrastructure Major Projects – Road,
    Rail, Ports, Airport, Aerospace? projects probably continuing or sped up
  • Technology Software Businesses (now
    working from Home) – software development
  • “Essentials” – Grocery, Bottle shops
    (Alcohol), Pharmacy, Dry Cleaners, Logistics
  • Local manufacturers switching to
    essential goods manufacture – PPE, Sanitisers, Toilet paper etc
  • Selected Mining and Resources

Here is some more info on Government Services

Which Businesses will prosper, survive,
struggle or die?

Specific Business impacts of Corona Virus Crisis – 
The impact on business and the economy will depend on the duration of
the crisis or closure – 3 months, 6 month, 9 months or 12 months and the number
of “waves” of virus pandemic.

businesses may PIVOT or POSITION themselves to grow in a different area. e.g.
Restaurants offering takeaway meals.

LIST of Businesses & Industries
that will probably GROW during Co-Vid Crisis & economic downturn

  • Online Stores & Online Commerce
    should do well
  • Virtual Meetings and Conferencing –
    Online Virtual Training like
  • Working from Home (WFH) Services –
    Home Setup, Technology, Wellness, Management
  • DIY Home Maintenance
  • Tech tools & software to WFH – a
    hot category at Officeworks & JB HiFi
  • Virtual Consulting – Doctors / medical
    services –
  • Healthcare & Pharmaceutical
  • Home Teaching & Schooling
  • Cleaning & Sanitising Suppliers
  • Advisors – Accountants, Wealth &
    Financial Advisers (via Virtual meetings)
  • Grocery Stores and suppliers (more
    eating at home)
  • Home Delivery services – groceries,
    Food, tech and Parcels
  • Mortgage Brokers & Credit
    providers – new loans to administer and refinancing
  • Big 4 Banks – Government Loans
    (depends if property prices crash)
  • Stockbrokers
  • Pawn Shops / Online Marketplaces
  • Telcos and some Tech/App Services
  • Home Streaming Movies – like Foxtel,
    Netflix, Stan etc  (might be dropped to Low Res like Europe)
  • Alcohol Sales (for Home Consumption)
  • Crematoriums (for body disposal) –
    Funerals may be delayed like in Italy
  • Virtual Real Estate and Property
  • Grocery / Food – Meat & Seafood?
  • Mobile Phone Resellers and Repairers,
  • Personal Trainers online & home
    fitness equipment
  • Online Real Estate Agents – Virtual
    Tours & Sales
  • Property Management and Body
    Corporate Services will be busy
  • Online Art & Craft Hobby Business
    – learning a new artistic hobby and home school supplies
  • Book Sellers & Book Publishers
    (Many people writing books)
  • Logistics – Transport, Warehousing
  • Employment Services – Career Coaching
    and Welfare
  • Bike Shops – repair and alternative
    to car.
  • Online Payments
  • Bargain and Discount Stores – budget
    conscious buyers
  • Pet Stores (online)

that will GROW later in the Post-Crisis Downturn
& eventual Recovery

  • Removalists & Relocations (moving
    closed Shops and residences)
  • Repair & Maintenance Services –
    fixing things don’t buy it
  • Robotics and Drones
  • Auto Car repairing (no new ones)
  • Funeral Events
  • Lipstick and Beauty Supplies
  • Flowers and Chocolates
  • Insolvency / liquidation
  • Repossession
  • Debt Collection
  • Delivery services
  • Pay Day lending?

that will probably SLOW during the CRISIS – Especially during the Shutdown

  • Allied Health – Physio / Chiropractic
    (Virtual consults only)
  • Dentists
  • Hairdressers & Barbers
  • Nails Shops & Beauty Salons
  • Surgeons & Private Specialists –
    Elective Surgery on hold
  • Childcare Centres (attendance drop)
  • Education – Universities and Schools
  • Transport – Cars and Petrol Stations
  • Utilities – less Power & Water
    being used?
  • Less Waste & Recycling needed
    from commercial premises and manufacturing
  • Mining & Resources dependent on
    commodity prices
  • Premium Meat and Seafood for Export
    (to Asia?)

that will DECLINE During and After the Co-Vid Crisis

  • MOST Aspirational and Discretionary
    Products and Services
  • Hospitality Industry – Cafes &
  • Cosmetic Surgery and procedures like
    Fillers and Anti-Wrinkle injections
  • Automotive – Sales of New Cars &
    Luxury Cars – Motor Vehicle Dealers
  • Boating and Nautical Sales
  • Education of Chinese students
  • Solar Panel Installers
  • Home Improvements – Pools and Spas
  • Home Furnishing
  • Restaurants – especially high-end
  • Live Conferences, Events and Speakers
    (moving to Virtual and Hybrid Events)

Businesses & Industries that face a
MAJOR DECLINE During the Crisis

Industries Hardest Hit

  • Booking
    & Travel Agents
  • Entertainment
    & Live Events – Sports, Conferences, Conventions, Caterers, Expos, Arts
  • Airlines
    – Airline Travel
  • Cruise
    Ships & Casinos
  • Hotels,
    Resorts & Accommodation

well as

  • Tourism Attractions and Tours
  • Conference Speakers, Conference
    organisers (PCOs), Bureaus, Expo Hire and construction
  • Venues – Weddings & Events
  • Retail Fashion Stores
  • Hire cars and equipment
  • Newsagents & Gift Shops
  • Live Events
  • Contact Sports and Stadiums
  • Cinemas and Markets
  • Massage Parlours, Escorts and Adult
  • Private School Fees
  • Taxis
  • Gyms
  • ALL Aspirational Fun Stuff – Jet ski,
    Harleys, Spas, Luxury Cars

Webinar – Australia’s Shrinking Job Market, Corona Proof Careers and The Future of Work

A conversation recorded live on Wednesday 8th April 2020 between Shireen DuPreez and Morris Miselowski


Shireen: [00:00:00]

Welcome everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today.  I’m Shireen DuPreez an Executive  Recruiter and Career Coach. I’m based in Perth. I’m sheltering in my home office as we speak, and I’d like to welcome Morris.

Morris: [00:00:13]

Hello again.

I’m hunkering down in beautiful Melbourne.

Shireen: [00:00:27]

How’s the weather there today?

Morris: [00:00:30]

It’s very good. I’m looking at my window to blue skies and just wisps of clouds.

Shireen: [00:00:36]

Similar in Perth, although it’s quite warm in Perth.

I’m looking forward to walk on the beach later today.

Morris: [00:00:42]

That could be contentious. Hopefully no towel in sight. No lying down.

Shireen: [00:00:48]

Absolutely. I shall not break the rules.

Morris: [00:00:52]

That’s what I like too.

Shireen: [00:00:56]

Thanks everybody for joining us today for a webinar, and we have 20 to 30 minutes of discussion between  Morris and myself, and then we’ll be going into Q&A.

We do have Julian Keys assisting us with administration on the call.   We’ll kick off today’s webinar on Australia’s  shrinking job market, corona proof careers and the future of work. And I might start with a question to straight up Morris, if that’s all right?

And that is, what are your observations of what’s been going on in the job market in Australia in the last few weeks?

Morris: [00:01:31]

Seems to have gone to hell in a hand basket doesn’t it, to put it a blunt way. So really what’s happening is, as we all know, without going back over everything that we’ve all lived through in the last three or four weeks, the job market really has changed. What’s changed. Predominantly apart from people, of course, losing work and there’s nothing good to be said about that whatsoever, is that it has fundamentally changed at its core.

Everything that we thought we weren’t able to do, everything that was impossible to do, we’re now doing. In other words, we’re working from home, we have distributed workforces, we’re allowing people to manage themselves. We’re finding that we are moving away from job descriptions, moving away from careers.

We’ll talk more about that in a couple of moments to into a more prolific space, which is about the job itself. So really there’s been fundamental changes for those that have been able to continue to work. And for those that haven’t, of course, they can more fundamental changes. And we’ll come to discuss that too.

Shireen: [00:02:34]

Yes. That’s a great opening. And you know, I’m seeing a lot of employers in survival mode, they have feeling that they have no choice but to cut costs. So notwithstanding the ongoing work the government is doing to try to keep people in jobs and employers have a great deal of fear. In some circumstances, their revenue has gone off the cliff and they feel that they really must act sooner rather than later to reduce their costs in order to survive – what is an undetermined period. So I’m seeing a great deal of movement of people generally out of the job market.

Unfortunately, just yesterday I had two phone calls when people that had been unexpectedly made redundant, and unfortunately, some of it is not handled well at the moment, and I can understand that, but I think there’s going to be a period of time where it needs to be some forgiveness potentially, and some realization that perhaps things have not been handled well in the last few weeks.

Morris: [00:03:38]

I would agree. The one thing I would ask everyone that’s listening is the, can we stop reacting. Can we stop reacting and overreacting to everything that we’re hearing? It’s a very human trait, and I know that. I know it’s what we do as a default, but in business we’re really gonna start responding or over responding to it.

The first is an emotional response and it makes perfect sense. It’s valid, but it often doesn’t take us to a strategic answer. It often doesn’t take us where we need to. Honestly. Even with the avalanche of information that we’re hearing, let’s count to 10 literally before we choose to react. And I’m finding that with my clients as well, that they are beginning to cost cut.

They’re beginning to do things, which soon to make sense, but they don’t really, it’s an overreaction. I talk about the necessity of not just cutting the bottom line, but really looking at everything that is happening in an organization and wondering if there’s a better way to do it. And I would like, and again, we’ll share more of this as we talk our way through the next little while.

I would like us to look at not just responding. To what’s happening now, but over responding, taking into account what we think our workforce might need to be at the other side of this. There’s a lot of guessing about that and lots of conversations that have, there’s no surety about that, but let’s see if we can over-responsive we’re actually building our workforce, our capacity in our businesses so that when we come out of it and we will, that we can respond to that marketplace really quickly.

The greatest tragedy we can do to our business is to react and right now to do what needs to be done right now and then to find when we begin to see some sunlight that we’ve got to rebuild again. You really putting yourself through your own tragedy a second time for no purpose whatsoever.

Shireen: [00:05:21]

Look I agree with you. I would challenge you on one point though, Morris, is that what I’m seeing and hearing is that even the  people with the best of intentions, their business mind is overriding some of their human skills right now. And, for example, one large engineering and construction firm I know of, headquartered in Perth has gone from a order book of $118 million to 20 million.

And they have had no choice, but to cut a workforce of six to 7,000. So the only way that they can survive is to do those drastic cuts. Now, uh, I think we’re all going through a period of tremendous learning. I love your optimism and only in retrospect where we go, okay, I could’ve handled that conversation better.

I should have had a longer term view on that. This is the first time in my experience that we’re actually not only fighting for our lives as well as our job’s. So one of the things I really like about your Morris is your ongoing optimism and your vision into the future. That the outcomes of what we’re going through now are going to impact us.

So let’s look ahead instead of just being in the moment. It’s a challenge is very real.

Morris: [00:06:33]

And I get that. I absolutely get it. I mean, we’re all human, as we said a few times, and we’ll continue to say in our conversation, but as best as we can. Let’s keep an eye on what we want the business to be. I talk about a notion of really working into three stages.

As a futurist. I’ve worked out to 50 and a hundred years, literally for clients, and had those conversations as a futurist, literally sitting here on the 8th of April, 2020 I’m talking minutes and days now, so I’ve shrunk my strategy look forward to now, which is a conversation between now and three weeks.

And then next, which is a conversation of three to five weeks. What do we do? Who are we in the rest of it? And then five weeks plus. But the biggest change in all of that is a mindset that I’ve always wanted people to have inclined to have. And that is to be able to reset to now as soon as something occurs.

And that’s what you need to do now. So again, three stages of thinking. But be prepared that there is much more ahead that we don’t know about. There are things that we will have to respond to, and if we can keep going down that strategy road and keep going down that strategy road and coming back to it, I think we’ll make better decisions.

We will get things wrong. No two ways about it, and that’s human. There’s nothing wrong with that. We’re making the best responses we can with what we know and what we have and the time that we have. Oh, please. If at all possible, leave at least 10-20% bandwidth to just think about the implications down the road, even though they’re not as clear as I would have once been.

Yeah. I hear you. I mean, at a personal level with my own business, my projects were all frozen. It was a felt like a flashback to the global financial crisis. I guess part of me also having been through the global financial crisis, is recalls that after wave, after wave of redundancies for a considerable period of time.

Actually hiring a guide was really hard for employees because they were shell shocked. I worried about the revenues and even though we want people to bounce back quickly and have the V shaped recovery that’s being talked about in reality, hiring my take longer than certainly the layoffs to get going again.

Yeah, I think it will. The other reality for me, and again, we don’t know this for sure, but I’m fairly confident this is the reality. I don’t like this at all. I for once , I’m absolutely wrong, but this is not a V shape recovery. This is about, this is a bounce and are going to bounce and we’re going to bounce.

I would be, I am fairly certain and certainly counseling people that this is not the only time we will ever have to do this in our lives. It’s likely not putting a time window. I’m just putting nominal dates, it’s likely we’ll have to do this in six months or in 18 months or in 12 months that there will be a version of what we’re going through again.

And even if there isn’t, there will always be that niggling doubt. They’ll always be us sitting there and strategy wondering, is this covert proof? Will this be actually be able to run the business in the way that we did it before? And the reason that I say that there must probably will be bounces along the way.

Is that. There is not enough conversation that this is a lowest common denominator rights until the last person on this planet is Covid-19 free. There is an opportunity for this to keep coming back to us and we’re going to have to investigate and we’re going to have to invent and innovate what the world looks like until then, because that’s our reality.

When we think we have it under control, and again, I hope I’m wrong, but when we think that we have the sum, the control. It must probably will come back to bite us in some way or other. So that’s why I go back to that zero to, you know, that whole strategy I talked about before, the three stage one we’ve really got to be thinking about that.

So to your point,  I think the hiring will be difficult afterwards because. It will be based on that kind of thought process of, do we really need these people? Can we sustain them in work for a period of time? And of course the answer has to be yes, it has to be because we have to continue. But then also we’ve got to be prepared for what happens if this happens again.

And I, I believe, as I’ve said, the world.

Shireen: [00:10:36]

So if we can look at the job market ahead and let’s go in incremental steps, what is your view of how the job market will shake out? We bear in mind there may be further redundancy waves, but after they start to ease, what is your view.

Morris: [00:10:52]

So I’ve got a couple of horrific views.

I mean, this is just so not me, but this is the pragmatism. And in fact, I had a conversation only an hour ago with some politicians who thought that I was in fact being too lenient, shout nine who they are.

But yeah, so. I believe that 12% of businesses will not come out of the car with 19 will never see the light of day again, which is 276,000 businesses in Australia that will never open their doors again.

We have 13 million people employed, give or take as a February this year. According to Australian Bureau of statistics, 13 million. I am seeing that we will have 30% unemployment. In the next year or so. Now I’m not talking about poll, I’m not talking about the bottom line. That 5% figure that we have, now I’m talking about underemployment, underutilization, lumpy stuff.

People who are not really doing what they want to be doing, all those sorts of things is what I’m saying. By 30 I’m not being sensationalist. I’m not saying 30% of the population will sit home and do nothing. It just won’t be what they want. It won’t be the world that they had dreamed for themselves is what I’m coming up with is that figure, and that’s the world.

That’s the pragmatic world I think that we’re headed into for the next year, year and a half, maybe two years. Okay. I agree with you and certainly the statistics out of the U S of course, they have had a higher health impact than we have in Australia, but they might also bounce back quicker than we do, is 30% unemployment, which is a really scary statistic.

And I want to just ask you for a minute before you give some advice on what others should do. What are you doing yourself as an individual? Well, a couple of things. Firstly, I’ve gifted myself something that I wanted to do for a very long time. I’m growing hair back on my head and that sounds silly, but really at this time I’m trying, I’m trying to find personal things that gives me joy.

I mean, I’m stuck home like everybody else. My mind takes me everywhere, so I’m kind of lucky. I’m also kind of lucky cause my world’s always about change, so I’m really comfortable. As strange as, as extraordinary as that sounds. I’m kind of comfortable with this kind of are these, I do silly things. I mean, you know, I’ve changed the, I’ve changed the front of my phone.

My home is now a series of wallpapers of the favorite places I used to love to travel. So I’m looking at them anyway. I’m allowing myself to indulge at least virtually spiritually and being places I want to be, and I’m also strangely enough, enjoying having the family home. It really is a great period of time in that sense.

I have two children. They’re much older. And I’ve now have set up a Coke, a coworking space at my home. There was my wife and I, and this home was far too large for us all of a sudden to become small. So we have a business up the front, which is my daughter and my son in law who run their business out of the front of the house upstairs.

We have a very large consulting firm. In other words, my other daughter in law was sitting upstairs working from home. My son is doing the same. My wife is lecturing. So I’m really enjoying seeing all of those things happening around me and the way that we’re changing the world. So on a really personal level, um, I take joy wherever I can.

So for me, it’s those sorts of things. Right. That’s a great example and it reminds me of why it’s such a joy to talk to you is that, does that date optimism and you, when you first started talking, you said you’re really comfortable with change. I thought I was comfortable with change because I’m someone who does live in the future.

I love what’s coming next and I’m excited. I don’t live in the past and I’m being patient in the present to get where I want to go. I’ve always been that way. Uh. But I find it really challenging to keep the daemons at Bay right now. And that’s partly because I run a business. And also members of my family have been laid off.

My daughter, who’s a student in Canberra, is no longer able to work in hospitality and support herself at university. So it has had a personal impact, and I’m worried, I’m worried about people, so I feel like I’m worrying more. Than I would normally worry. And, at the same time, I also am going out every day for a walk and life is a lot simpler.

So I, I balanced this kind of, life’s pretty good with, Oh my gosh, this is just not sustainable for me. Um, it’s, it’s just a really interesting time. Let’s. The first thing is, and none of us, I have not seen a communal conversation on this. We have to understand, we really do. Every single one of us on this planet have to understand that we are going through a grieving process.

We have lost the vision of who we are. We’ve lost ourselves and we’ve lost what we thought our future would be. And it’s not that melodramatic to say that because all of us carry a vision of who we are and it was all based on none of this stuff. None of this stuff factored into it. So we have come to a screeching halt.

We have other people telling us what’s right and wrong. We’re making decisions based on very, very poor information, and we’re not quite sure of a certainty. It’s all about grieving. So to me, I have. Begged everybody honestly to sit with themselves and to take themselves as quickly as they can or whatever method, whatever length of time, and grieve.

I mean, actually say out loud that I’m not likely to be that person I was before and that’s not a bad thing. It just means I need to adjust and I need to change. And unfortunately it’s been dictated. It’s not something that’s in my control. You know, we’re not sitting and holding hands.

It’s not kumbaya at all. It’s the realism, again, of being human that we are grieving. We have lost. Something dramatic. Our sense of self. So we have to get that back in, in whatever way is possible for ourselves. And nobody else can do that for us. And the other thing is we are entitled to be modeling. We are entitled to be sad, and we are entitled to say, this is not what I want.

We have to give ourselves permission to do all of that. We don’t have to sit here and be perfect, but I’m begging everybody. But once or during, you go through that process please, every so often and when you can always look ahead, because we will get out. And so I know everybody says it and including the queen, and she was far more elegant and eloquent.

Then I can be, but we will get out of this. It doesn’t seem like it, and we just have to keep on with that vision. But allow yourself to grieve in the way cells to move forward and then rebuild a vision and a picture of who you are, who you want to be. This is an opportunity. It’s a terrible one, but it’s an opportunity to reset and reboot.

I agree in the sense that I feel as though if I don’t take this opportunity to really stop and say, okay, you wanted a chance to reevaluate, you’ve got it. If you’re going to ever reinvent yourself, what will that look like? Because now you’ve got the time to do it. There’s going to be so many people reinventing their careers over the course of the next six to 12 months out of necessity or out of choice.

And so this is that very unique time to do so you’ve actually got time to get skills. You’ve got time to talk to people, to learn from them, to share, and you’ve also got time to connect. And I find. You know, in everyday business life you might have a list of 10 people. You never get a chance to call because you’re just too focused on what needs to happen today.

Well, now we actually have the time to call and connect. And I noticed also a number of things going on in communities around, you know, community, Facebook groups or community projects and what have you, is that people’s desire and sense to be part of community and spirit and supporting doctors or whatever it is.

Calling on you now is a good time to implement that. Yeah, it absolutely is. And to sit with them, you know, as you said, we’re being forced. I mean, this is, this is forced in denture. We’re being forced to look at ours to look at ourselves in some ways, but to reimagine, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

It’s terrible the way we were being forced to do it. But then the activity itself is not necessarily a bad, you know, I, I, I always made the joke that I am trying to figure out every day of my life who I want to be when I grow up. And that’s exactly the statement I make. Who do I want to be when I grow up?

And that allows me to be childish. It allows me to drain. It allows me to imagine, and that is taking the best of who I am, the best of my skill set and pondering how I might be able to develop that further. And it’s not just not on a personal basis, on a business space. It’s also on a personal basis. So yes, there’s lots of things I want to get to in this conversation with you.

But it. If fundamentally it is a human activity, we’ve got to be able to see that there is a future. We’ve got to understand that we’re grieving for the past. Some of their past will disappear, some will come back and give us joy again. But importantly, I think this is a time where we do have to set, hit that reset and reboot button and let’s grow out of it.

I mean, let’s, let’s try and make something better.

Shireen: [00:19:47]

Yeah. I want you to just bring it back down to the immediacy of people’s need to have an income. Okay? So every day now I’m talking to people that are signed to me train.

How do I job search in this market?

And whilst my usual advice still stands, it’s with an adapted kind of view that we’re moving into a far more competitive landscape for skills unless you’re a doctor and those in the high demand, space. What is your view or advice for people on how to just get paid work.

Morris: [00:20:32]

Okay. So the first thing is that for those that still have a job, they have a career. For the rest of us, me models, it isn’t about a career for a little while.

We really have to put the career on hold. I don’t mean forget about it, just put it on hold. Because we are in survival mode. As you’ve said, this is all about jobs. And I’m finding increasingly in the last month or so, the jobs are about tasks. They are about the skill set. They’re about something that you might not have otherwise wanted to do or thought that you could even make money from.

And I’m talking about this now, period. You know the now the threat, the nought to three weeks, the trying to find a career is almost impossible now. Not impossible, but nearly trying to find a job also might not, that might not be that easy. Not impossible. Not that easy. But finding tasks is relatively. Uh, a much easier task, I should say, a much easier activity to do.

By that, I mean, there are, you know, what? 2000 jobs waiting at Woollies. I know most of the being taken and this list is something everybody knows. There are domino drivers, there are all kinds of people. If you go into Airtasker, if you go into some of those sites and see what skills you have, that might be useful to somebody else in a very, very short period of time, if you need.

Neither jumper and go into Etsy and begin to sell that sort of thing to somebody else. So for me, the advice I’ve given always now is now is absolutely more, it’s more relevant now than ever before. That is that we are on small business. Regardless of whether you worked for somebody else or not, you are your own small business.

You need to ensure that you have a multiplicity of skills. It really is about a skills portfolio, which is how I think we’re going to make income moving forward anyway, we’ll have a core job and we’ll then sell other skills as we need them either to satisfy a women that we have to try a new muscle or activity or just because we want to make more money.

And that we’re seeing is the gig economy of tomorrow so we can have a job and go into Uber and maybe sell something else somewhere else. Air B and B. This portfolio approach is what I think we all need to have moving forward, regardless of whether we’re full time or not. This is the reason. When you go to take financial advice, and I’m not giving any, but I think the best financial advice is that you should have a mixed portfolio, a little bit of money here, and maybe in shares, a little bit of money in property and a little bit of money in money.

So regardless if one drops off, the other two are other one is still around. I’m suggesting exactly the same thing for your career. Have your main career, have your main job. Where you make most of your money or most of your enjoyment, and that’s what sustains you, but have something else in your portfolio, but you can do as an income or you can add in as a bit of enjoyment or a bit of fun or stretch some skills or do something else and have that consistently working in your life.

So it might only be an hour a month, it might be a couple of hours. Every two months, if that’s not important. But your mind takes you to the thought that yes, I have this skill, but I could also do this and if I need to, I could also do that. And we need to be prepared for that kind of a future. So my process is to find out what those skills are that you enjoy doing.

What are those transferable skills? And we talk about so often, what are the things that you can do? And you’d be surprised. The more mundane it is, I find the more often it’s necessary. People need people to answer a phone. They need people to do typing. They need people to do gardening. They need people to go and pick a parcel up for them.

Mundane and ordinary is perfect at this stage. It’s a task that you can do. It’s not a career, it’s not a job. It really is getting you through that now period so that you can then move on. So those sorts of things are where I think we can begin to lift ourselves out. Not easy. Absolutely not just a phone call away.

That’s far more possible than anything else at this stage. So you’re really asking people to go back to their roots of human nature and be fundamentally entrepreneurial. Absolutely. Regardless of whether you have a full time job or not, I think that’s where the joy is. I honestly think that’s where the joy is.

Even in full time employment, incrementally changing your job, challenging and changing the work that you do inside your job, not changing, changing the work that you do, incrementally asking yourself. With what I know now with what I’ve just done. Is there a better way to do it? That phone call I’ve just taken, I realized if I said this or phrase it that way or did this, it’s a far better experience.

I should do that again, that’s incremental change. So even in a day to day job, I would. Challenge us all to have that mindset. But increasingly for ourselves, it’s the question of yes, I am this person. This is what I want to have on my job title. But I also don’t mind doing that. And I also don’t mind doing a bit of gardening or a bit of kayaking, or I can be a tour guide or I can cook or whatever else.

So that’s what I think we can get our immediacy from. It also connects us back to a community, gives us a sense of purpose, because the one thing that we know in our society is that for many of us, and I don’t think that’s a good thing, but it’s a real thing. For many of us, our sense of self-worth is attached to our job and our job title and where are we getting that from?

Shireen: [00:25:34]

I agree. Some work is better than no work. Certainly statistics around long-term unemployed, anything after 18 months being unemployed at can it create deep emotional scarring. So I agree with you and your advice is to get out there, take a full portfolio approach.

Where can you make money in a different way?

Look, that will mean an erosion of some of our traditional work. Uh, potential potentially benefits. I’ve been running a business for 10 years, so I’m used to not having any benefits unless I bestow them on myself. However, I can see that’s going to have a significant impact on families and, and just genuinely trickled down.

I’m also concerned that with creating a massive welfare state right now, and whilst we need it, and I applaud the government’s strong support through this crisis period. The downside, of course will be, are we going to make people too reliant on the state and how many people will be working to help pay the taxes of the state for those people that just were not willing to, or able to find a portfolio approach or find any work at all.

So we’re really grappling with some massive issues here. If fundamentally the move to portfolio careers had already commenced prior to this. It’s just that it will be interesting to see the statistics in another six to 12 months is how many of those people have actually moved further into portfolio career.

It was going to be 50% of people in some sort of a different type of arrangement other than full time. I wonder if it’ll be 60% or 70% of people that have come out of this, not in a full time job.

Morris: [00:27:11]

And is that a good thing or a bad thing? I’m not quite sure because we needed to have this discussion anyway.

It would have been more orderly. It would have been slower, but the entire workforce, the way that we structure work needs to change. The reality is that we are putting enough two, 3 billion people on this planet that we’re having a rising middle class. The discussions I had before covid were really about the changing workforce.

Anyway. But behind all of this, again, pre covid, there is been a belief for a very long period of time, fostered by the abs and all kinds of other economists that by 2030 let’s not talk about this period because of course it’s changed everything, but let’s go pre. But by 2030 we were going to have a short fall in Australia, 2 million workers, a short form that we would not have enough people to do what we need to do to sustain ourselves as a country.

I still think we’re going to have that kind of a shortfall. In other words, we will need people. We will need people to be able to grow our economy. Again, I don’t think that employment is, we know it has, it will disappear totally. But I think the way we structured the way people get work, probably people receive work, the longevity of work, all of that is up for question now, where, how, why and when we work is all up for question.

And I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. I think as a society, not as an individual because it’s difficult as an individual, but as a society, it’s a discussion we needed to have.

Shireen: [00:28:31]

Look, there is a grave risk around hamstringing businesses that can’t bring talent in, in Australia. So whilst a border closure may make us feel really safe and make us think that more people in Western Australia are going to get hired because we’re not having people coming from Eastern States or from overseas.

The big risk is for businesses that want to grow and kind of get the skills, they just want the able to sustain. Having a business in West Australia, which may be offshoring more businesses. So fluid movement of talent is really important for business growth and change. And I’m a bit concerned if we become too parochial and closed-borded around what will happen generally in our ability to compete on the world stage.

Morris: [00:29:16]

Well, your model talks a lot about the physical world and we have to include the digital world here. My reality is, my advice has been for a long time, is that an organization, the business should have 60% of its workforce made up of permanent people. People who carry the ethos, carry the brand, carry the knowledge and the soul of the business, and they can maintain most of the day to day efforts.

I believe the other 40 – 20% of which should be made up by technology that supports the business to do what they need to do. And the other 20% is made up by a transient or a peak workforce that comes in with specialist skills. So there’s a lot of rejigging up, I believe, that we couldn’t do and would have done.

It would just would have been more gradual. So I do think that there’s lots of room for us to grow, to grow, and I think we can in fact grow better, stronger businesses at our covid resistant if we kind of take that 60, 20, 20 model.

Shireen: [00:30:09]

Okay. That’s really interesting. I actually hadn’t heard that before, but I can see why that would work.

And so now what you’re saying is if you’re a business in Australia and you need the skills that are offshore, you can still get the skills, you just might never meet the person.

Morris: [00:30:22]

And who cares. I mean, depending on what it is, who cares? Because we’re really about outputs. We’re not about inputs anymore. And that’s the other big shift that I’m hoping we will see out of these inputs is where we measure every minute of everybody’s activity.

And when the panted in their leader of sweat at the end of the week, we say, job well done. For me, it’s a world of outputs. We’re adults. We’re being paid because we are the best of what we do. Let’s just assume that we understand what has to be done when, where, and how, and that we are absolutely responsible for achieving that.

If we don’t, then kick us to the curb, no question about it. In that world, all of this is possible because we’re adults working to outputs.

Shireen: [00:30:57]

Yeah. Excellent. Never mind the poor graduates haven’t quite got to full adulthood, but that’s another discussion.  Now, what I’d like to just turn our attention to briefly before we go to Q&A

What would be your strategy for the recovery?

So if you were to get it, give advice to people that, are looking ahead to the recovery phase of what’s going to be, in the next six months or 12 months, 18 months. We don’t know when the recovery will actually begin.

What is your advice?

Morris: [00:31:34]

So going back to core, firstly, let’s go back to call. Let’s figure out what the business is, reset and reboot, cause this is a perfect opportunity. Figure out what it is that you want to do and what did you, what it is you should be doing. Many businesses have a lot of fat attached to it.

They’re doing things and don’t necessarily bring in money. They’re kind of legacy systems, legacy protocols and practices. I think that’s really important. Link back to the core, figuring out who and what you are, and then we can start to begin to, we can start to begin. Take the lessons from what we have just done.

The reality is that we have gone into a black hole. We all know that. What we have not realized yet is that we will come out the other end of this five if not 10 years ahead of where we otherwise might have been because we have all done the impossible for 20 years. I have heard we can’t do it. It’ll never happen.

Not a part of my life. My business council by industry can’t do it. We’re never going to do. And that we’re all sitting at home in a distributed workforce or taken out digital world, and we’ve said it’s no longer the devil. It in fact, is what allows us to continue to be human and to work. If we didn’t have this digital landscape, if we didn’t have the internet, which everybody has pilloried.

Where would we be today? Literally sitting in our homes listening to a radio and newspaper and a television and not speaking to each other. So I’m not a fanboy for technology. What I’m saying in this world moving forward, let’s just accept all of this has been agreed to now. Anything is possible. Let’s take the lessons out of what we currently do.

Look at the workforce. We have looked at how they’re working. We remodel work. Let’s reshape the work. It’s figuring out when, where, how, and why it’s best done. Let’s do that now because we started discussion by efficiencies. We started discussion by making cutbacks. To me, that’s a more beneficial, that’s a response.

Cut back by doing that, I know that we’re going to trim fat. I know that we are going to run lean. I know that we are going to achieve what we want to achieve. Let’s use the time to do this. Let’s go do that 60 2020 model because now technology is really leaning heavily into them. Most businesses are relying on their, what does that look like for you?

There are businesses and industries ahead. There is lots of upside, lots of things. We’re getting out of the health industry. For instance, the health industry. We will now see the ramifications of health in a way that I believe we will cure some cancers. We will look at disability in different ways. We will look at ailments different ways, and we are now responsible for our own health.

We’re going through a wellness phase because we’re told that. We are responsible. Take care of yourself so you don’t get sick. Let’s look at what the lessons are for every industry, and there are tons of them. I mean, I’ve, I’ve got list and I’m up to about 63 inklings, but I’m looking at that. I’ve vague things.

I think we’ll be ahead. Try and figure out how your industry’s changing. Don’t go back to what you were before. It doesn’t exist. That’s the biggest mistake. Figure out what you think your industry might be. Yell out, let’s have a chat about this. We’ve grown a community here online. Let’s keep talking to each other about what that might be.

It’s often easier for somebody outside to see it, so I’m trying to give really difficult long advice really quickly, but to me it’s those things. It’s the fundamentals because everything else is just bows and Rubens. All right, so there was a lot to that. I want to say that that old saying of trimming fat, not muscle, which I hear business owners talk about is, can really be.

Hard to hear because, I’m seeing a lot of muscle getting trimmed all the while we’re sitting at home getting fat because we can’t go to the gym. But that’s another topic. But what I want to just point out to you is whilst on a cognitive level, I get it. I hear what you’re saying. We’re going to be better off.

In medical terms, we going to have the opportunity to reinvent ourselves. We can refocus weekend shift, whatever didn’t work in our life before. We can go back to basics. We can think about it, but you know, we’re not always used to asking ourselves. Who we are, and then being able to attach a value in the job market to who we are.

It’s actually not as simple. And in my career coaching, I often come against this is for someone that. Knows what their skill base is and knows what they can get paid and worked within. The parameters of that can set a target list of companies can approach, companies can use it, networks and maneuver and leverage an opportunity.

That’s great, but for the people that actually are back to 0.0 of going, well, who am I now? I thought I was up, but that whole experience was really difficult. I don’t want to go back there and now I have to ask myself again, who am I and where will my skills he paid for. Do you have any advice on that? So again, it goes back to what we said before about tasks.

For me, the question, the answer to that question is that there isn’t an answer. If we look for an answer, we’re never going to move forward. Who are we at this moment? What are we feeling at this moment? What tasks do we want to complete this moment? What can I get paid for this moment? We’re trying to make the best person we can be exactly at this minute.

Let’s not worry about tomorrow and next week or next month. We’ll work towards that. That’s a whole existential cognitive conversation. If we have 10 years to take ourselves to India and think about it really is, I’m hoping this doesn’t sound esoteric because to me it’s absolutely practical. It’s really saying that at this exact moment, what do I need to do?

Who do I need to be? What is my journey. So I’ve got some long vision. Let’s just not run into it, so I know roughly what it is I want to do and roughly where I’m headed, even if I don’t know exactly how I’m going to get it, like the rest of the world at the moment. Let’s just start building tasks. To your point, yes, as if I’m going for a job, it’s obvious because the job is worth X number of dollars.

I’m offered it and I can marketplace compare at this stage. Maybe it’s just a compare. Maybe it’s just an automation of task payments. Look at what the hourly rate is. Look at what people are paying for those tasks that you have and a mess. Again, that portfolio income, there isn’t an easy answer. I know that’s very, very easy for me to sit here and that I’m asking people to spend hours and hours doing what might seem to be fruitless, useless tasks, but firstly, they’re not.

They’re putting money in the bank. They’re extending your skillset. They are getting you out of the house or in the house, but to do different things and at least they’re stretching the mind and taking you towards something else. I know they’re not the perfect answers. I know it’s not what we want to hear, but at this stage, there aren’t any perfect answers and we’re not hearing anything we want to hear anyway.

You are right, very good. So I would like to turn now to questions to Q&A. So if you’re ready, if there was anything else you wanted to add before we do that, Morris.

Okay, good. I will bring Julian in who’s doing a wonderful job administering for us. Julian, if you would please give us an idea of some of the questions that have been coming through and let us know any that you would like us to answer.

Julian: [00:38:37]

Thanks Shireen. Yes, we’ve got 47 people in the room and a number of questions and comments have been posted.

The first two are very similar, so I’ll put them tomorrows together.

Michelle asked, what industries do you think will thrive after this? And maybe what type of industries will struggle in the future? Steven asked, which industries are the early winners, which industries are doomed?

Morris: [00:39:05]

So the answer to that, I mean, there’s a long list and I’m happy.

If you want to, I’ll send you that long list of industries. But for me, we talk a lot about health. The moment we’re going really short term, we have a lot of native around health and we will continue to have that for the next couple of years. Now, health doesn’t mean need to be eaten. You need to be a doctor or a nurse.

Of course, wonderful skills need more of them. It can be allied health, it can be anything around there. So that sort of work is absolutely part of it. We also have what I refer to as revenge. Buying coming up, we will have a really big spike of people that go into revenge. Now, what I love by that, which is why I like using it, revenge is exactly what I’m doing, and I think most people are.

When this damn thing finishes, I’m going to. I’m going to go out to a restaurant, I’m going to buy that pair of shoes, I’m going to do that, and I’m going to do this. So there will be a spike in revenge buying or revenge activity as soon as we can do it. So figure out what it is people will want to do at the other end of this.

For immediate income, I mean for median income for you. So will it be going to a restaurant? Will it be going for a walk? Will it be going to gym? If that’s that kind of thing, then you can immediately, as soon as this thing begins to look like it’s lifting, take advantage of that straight away. So I would be looking for human to human activities because it will be strange and different.

But the thing that we crave, I think that there will be work around hospitality. It’ll be different. It’ll be lumpy. We’ll have lots of issues around that. So my thoughts are towards it. Now again, we’ve got structural things like we’ve got government funded services. There will be an increase in police.

The one thing that I’m absolutely sure of, I wish I was social about the tax numbers, is that we will have an increased police force after this is all over. Every single police force in Australia is struggling to find members struggling to find people to join them. After this, we will have lots of people that are applying, so there’s a place already government funded that will take, that will give jobs.

We have the defence, we’ve got welfare, but aged care, it’s going to be difficult to administer over the next year or two as we get our way through this. Covert that be looking for people. There are, of course, the utility companies, the telcos and those sorts of things will have to continue and we’ll have to rise.

Construction and building, especially infrastructure is another space where governments will be forced to spend money. They will be forced to spend money, so we will be able to consult and, and have jobs and work into that space. So they’re going to be there. Technology is going to be a huge increase now, especially with what you and I doing, sharing this type of stuff that’s been done at home.

This distributed type of software is new, which I mean, it’s been around forever. Zoom has been around forever, but it hasn’t been used on mass before. It hasn’t been a real appetite for it. So what we’re doing now is really using legacy systems, things that were around and opportunistic, but they were never built to do what it is that we’re doing with them now and what we would like to do.

So lots of work around that, inventing, innovating, those types of bits of software and all the technology that goes with it and the list goes on. But so happy. If you want to email me I’m happy to send you a list of them. But again, I say it with a lot of energy because there is truth that there is a lot of work ahead.

We just need to get somebody to find this. The key to get us out of home.

Julian: [00:42:21]

Next question, Morris from Phil. Does Australia and New Zealand stand to be major players moving forward due to self-sufficiency, options, and what? What will be the focus in terms of manufacturing in those countries?

Morris: [00:42:36]

It’s a really fascinating question.

I’ve been asked that a few times in the last. Week or so, and I mean that because I’m still struggling with the answer. The manufacturing, of course, is something that we’re seeing going off shore at the moment. We’re seeing what’s called reassuring or remanufacturing, which means we’re bringing, we’re trying to bring it back to Australia.

That’s been a trend for the last four or five years in a small way to bring it back from overseas and to start doing it again here. I think there’ll be a small increase in manufacturing because the thing that I’m noticing now is that the conversation about retooling and existing manufacturers are very, very quickly looking at what can we do?

Can we make a respirator? Can we make masks? Even though we haven’t done it before, but we have the, we have the person power. We’ve got the square footage. We’ve got the things that seem to make it possible, so there will be an uplift if we can find those sorts of things that we can rethink our current practices or the current things that we do in our manufacturing to what might be necessary.

It’s kind of a King to the war effort. We’re in war. We had to bring it all back. We had to find local producers, so in that sense, I think that we will find an uptight. The reason I’m hesitating is because I grew up in a time when manufacturing was such a large part of Australia and so vital to us, and I don’t sense we’re going to get back to that kind of vitality completely.

And I asked which skills will be most in demand in the post pandemic world, the same ones that were before human ones. Absolutely human ones. This is a conversation we would have had before the . Our reality is that anything that’s transactionary has been pushed over to technology. So anything where I can put a one plus one equals two, I’m going to get a piece of robotics to do.

We don’t have people with checkout at supermarkets in the same way we did before. So those skills have disappeared and will increasingly disappear. Bookkeepers now often are not around because we’re using zero and MYOB and other things. What we will need to do and what we will continue to need and what this.

Yeah. This pandemic has proven to us is that we are humans. That what we look for is human interaction. So what we’ll sell into the future are the human to human. The communication skills, the ability to be able to make yourself known and heard. Those sorts of creativity skills where we can think differently.

Again, that incremental change they’re not. Things are technology can do. There are things that only humans can do, so the advice to me hasn’t changed pre, post and enduring. It’s the same. It’s always the human skills that are going to be the ones that are, I think are most future proof.

Julian: [00:45:20]

Next question is on a different theme.

So looking forward, what do you think the currency, the world will be and any comments on Bitcoin?

Morris: [00:45:31]

So when we talk, Karen said, because you ended in Bitcoin, I think where I keep talking about currency as in dollars. Again, this is conversation tree covert, but it might have been, you know, this might’ve pushed it forward.

I firstly have never believed will be a cashless society. I think we’ll be a less cash society. And that’s because in the city, for instance, we take for granted that we can set a car or our phone and have things paid, go out a couple of hundred kilometers. And even with the NBN, as wonderful as we’re being told to is now, it doesn’t work particularly well.

So they need cash. Some people just will not put away their cash and use credit cards. Having said that, increasingly we will use some sort of digital currency. Bitcoin is one of the brands, but Bitcoin is also one of the oldest brands. It’s one of the first ones, and the technology itself is quite dated.

Again, not financial advice, but the technology itself is quite dated. There are far better versions of a digital currency and Bitcoin around. But that’s not really what’s important either. That what we’re headed to is a world of incremental payments. Incremental payments are really small minute payments.

Literally 0.0% that we make for something that we might buy or do, and that’s how we’re going to pay for things moving forward. Our electricity will actually be paid in a raise, but based on what we actually use, our insurance will be the same way. Every time our phone or our, our piece of technology interacts with something else.

There’ll be a digital chain, a digital chain attached to that, that makes the payments some fancy words around that that we can talk about off air as well. If you want to come back to me, we can have that conversation. So digital space will definitely increase. Cash is around for the foreseeable future though.

Julian: [00:47:17]

The second last question is from the business travel sector. Do we really see much erosion in closing deals and making business without the face to face toe-to-toe people-driven engagement. You know, when the internet first came about and Skype came on just before zoom was around. Everybody thought that the event industry was finished, why will I need to go to an event if I can see people inside the screen?

Morris: [00:47:44]

I’m physically never going to travel anywhere and being part of this industry for the last 30 years. It’s what I heard towards the end of the last century, into this century. Of course, nothing can be further from the truth. We are herd animals. We’d love to be with other people, so where we can do business online, we’re being taught now.

What those parameters are. We will continue to do that because there’s efficiencies here, but where it requires us to be together with another human being, we will crave that. There will be something, especially in this period of time coming out of this period of time that we will want to do. So I’m expecting effect to see an uptake where we will see more human to human contact.

Again, transaction will be done online now. Those meetings, those documents, things that we can easily do between a bit of a bit of digital technology. We’ll take care of itself. But we will look for opportunity always to have human to human contact.

Julian: [00:48:40]

And the last question, Morris, is from Judy. She’s interested in the 63 industries you took mentioned earlier.

Can you show us some more insight on that please?

No, those weren’t industries, Julie, so I didn’t, they were 60 at this day. 63 grows every time my mind goes back to it. They are inklings. They’re things that I’m seeing around me that I believe will be either small, medium, or large changes to the way we live, love and work.

That’s what I refer to in those. I do have a list of industries and I have a list of jobs, not 63 though, a list of industries and jobs that I think  are either covid pre, post or during, and ones that I think will disappear and please again come back to me email only or come and contact. I’m happy to send those through to you, but the other one in my inklings, they’re the things that I think will have repercussions on the world ahead, and that’s another conversation for another day.

Shireen: [00:49:34]

If you’re okay with us sharing that to the people that registered for the webinar, I’ll put a link when the recording’s available too. Absolutely.

Julian: [00:49:46]

That’s the end of the questions.

Back to you Shireen.

Shireen: [00:49:48]

Okay. Great. Thank you very much for those questions and appreciate your thoughts, really insightful. Just when you were talking about, herd animals and getting back to the fundamentals of how humans behave, it made me think about that I have seen some tribal stuff going on in workplaces and certainly with people in survival mode.

Do you think that the move to kind of  bring back to your immediate surroundings? Because we’re all worried to stick it out. A little patch of the world. We’ll see a flourishing all of more community based travel or business or what have you. Do you think that will be a change.

Morris: [00:50:38]

Okay. I’m desperately, I’m aching to say yes.

The thing that doesn’t allow me to say this is the pragmatism, the practicality. I’m not sure how far our leash will take us for the next while that as we start this conversation, we really are a lowest common denominator at the moment. Meaning that if there is disease, if there’s, if there’s reality of infection, then we may have borders that are closed for quite a while.

I would not be surprised. If Australia becomes a true either, I know we are, but the true Island for the next year or so, and it’s difficult to go in and out without getting a note from the headmaster or your parents asking you or saying why you need to leave. So my answer to your question is really in both.

I know as humans, the answer would be absolutely. Categorically we’d all be out there making hay, you know, we’d all be out there seeing each other and moving around. But the pragmatism and the practicalities, we may not be able to. So my advice to businesses and to other people is we need to continue to.

Strategize along the notion of we most probably won’t be able to physically outreach in the way we were for at least. Because stable future next six to 12 months for sure, and hopefully I want to be wrong again, there’s so much about this period I want to be wrong about.

Shireen: [00:51:51]

So let me ask you another, put you on the spot.

What is your current timeline around how long you’re thinking you’re going to be hunkered down for at a best case and a worst case scenario?

Morris: [00:52:03]

This is the question we all ask of each other. And I have no more advice or insight than anybody else, but I’ll say this, I mean, for me, my, my thinking is that we must probably have another two months, maybe three months of doing what we have now.

I think we’ll see some loosening of shackles. I also, as much as I don’t want it to happen, I think we, well, I know we need to start to get back together, unfortunately within see rise of infection. I just don’t understand how that’s not going to happen. I do quite a lot of work now with Griffith university around hospitals, future of medicine, future of all that kinds of stuff.

Everybody I’ve spoken to, even with the most optimistic view. Says, we will not get a jab within 18 months, and the jab is something equivalent with polio or measles or something else. Have the jab. It’ll take a while for your body to get used to. So it’s not immediate anyway, but eventually that’ll work itself out.

18 months. Somebody listening to this, please explain to me. How we get seven and a half billion jabs going in a really short period of time. So I’m just not, you know, all of that worries me, which is why I think when I was probably on our own in our home, it was a little bit of loosening over the next six to eight weeks, three months, most probably a bit more loosening.

But the board is around States and around out our nation. I think we’ll take a bit longer than that for us to go beyond. Again, wanting to be wrong, absolutely want to be wrong. Mm, yeah. So we might not see you back over in Perth for a while. You see me now, let’s accept the virtual. 

Shireen: [00:53:40]

That is a great saying. That’s a quote, “let’s accept the virtual”.

Morris: [00:53:46]

Yeah, and that’s what it is. I mean, I’d love to be there and I’d love to be having dinner and coffee with you, and that’s really what I want to come back and do. But gee, this is a great second or a great third.

And as you said, I’m an, I only an eternal optimist, I get that. I know that. And it’s just my quirk. But I’d much rather have this than nothing at all. Those aerograms which hardly anybody listening even knows what that means. But the old aerogram was the old blue sheet. We used to go to the post office and buy and write notes on use fold them up and send. It’s what we would be doing now if we didn’t have this internet.

So let’s, let’s work towards having the world back as we would like it to be. Let’s refashion it. Let’s see if we can take something good out of this. Take the best of who we were, what we are, what we were, and what we did.

Let’s then take the best of who we are, what we are, and what we do now, and let’s figure out what we want to be tomorrow. And let’s accept and push. Accepting doesn’t mean we have to give up, but let’s accept what we do now and push and keep pushing until we get more.

Shireen: [00:54:45]

Very good. So I’d like to call now for any closing thoughts or any closing questions.

Julian: [00:54:51]

We do have one final question from Mark. How can employers build their brand as a good employer?

Shireen: [00:54:58]

So they made stronger to attract best talent.

Okay. Yes. I think that is really long term view because what I’m seeing is a lot of reactivity and survival mode behavior, which may not translate well into good people to people communications, even with the best intentions.

People are just looking out for themselves first at the moment. With how an employer can build their brand? It’s usually a multichannel approach. So you do need to think about your marketing, how you are projecting yourself and more in a virtual way. So I would have a sort of a multipronged approach and look at how are you interacting with your current, usually your current employees are your biggest brand advocates, and the number one source of employees is through referrals.

So most companies do more of the hiring through referrals. So, treat your current people as well as possible because they will be your brand advocates and think you can do immediate tasks right now, but also thinking longer term around being ready to bring talent on. And, when you start seeing the uptick is on, is to try not to be as a delayed in your decision making and make it very painful for people to come on board just because you’re gun shy of what you’ve been through.

So I hope that’s helpful.

Morris: [00:56:41]

For me, I’d sum it up. I would say be kind, be kind to each other. I’m seeing some really great examples as horrible examples. People are working on a difficult circumstances. We all are. Let’s accept that we’re all adults. I’ve said this already in this conversation. Let’s accept we’re adults. Let’s work for outputs, not inputs.

If at all possible. Try not to micromanage people, resource them as best as possible because they are the people at the front. They’re the people doing the tasks that need to be done. No one is working in a rule book anymore. Everybody is making it up. We need to be kind to each other and if we are kind to each other, and the Shireen said, if I enjoy working for you, you have been as wonderful as you possibly can be to me during this period.

I’m going to be as loyal as hell to you for ever.

Shireen: [00:57:29]

That’s a good point. There will be a lot of loyalty built in this time period for existing employees, and so it may be harder to get new talent further down the track because that loyalty has been embedded now. Great. So that was a good last question thank you. And do you have any closing thoughts, Morris?

Morris: [00:57:49]

Same thing. Let’s be calm. Let’s imagine that there is a future because there is folks, there really is, I know we’re going through really difficult times. Everyone says that. I’m trying not to use those words, but. For every moment that we are seeing tragedy and we’re seeing a downfall please try and at least have one positive thought because we will come out of this. We absolutely will, and there is a very, very different world on the other side of it. It will not be perfect. It will be as bumpy and lumpy as hell and not even sure what it will be, but I am absolutely sure that just as well, just as much as there will be tragedy ahead and there will be there will also be opportunity ahead and there will be better times for all of us to have. We need to be ready to have them, because the other thing I know is that if we don’t allow ourselves to have that thought, then we want see the sun rising. We just want.

Shireen: [00:58:40]

That’s a really good wrap-up, and I would also like to add that if you need help and many people do right now, please ask for help.

This is  as a period of high stress, it’s not possible to have all the answers yourself, and some people actually, can’t access, for whatever reason, the support that they need – often by helping others, you’re helping yourself. So even if you’re feel that you can’t get the help you need, go out and find someone who needs help because by giving you will receive.

And, in relation  to the jobstuff is, I would suggest to go to your immediate network first, go to the people that know you most, know that you’re good at whatever skill you have. And. Go to that first, rather than just click, click, click on job ads online. There’s a huge amount of competition now online.

So reach out to your network, ask for help, and, don’t be afraid to seek support if you need it.

Morris: [00:59:48]

Yeah, absolutely. Break all the rules because there aren’t any. We’ll try to break up the rules and just make it up. Do whatever you need to do, do whatever you need to do to get through this period because you are worth the effort.

I mean, you are truly worth the effort. So make the effort to help you and other people to move forward, because we will meet again in Perth physically, we will have coffee and lunch together. We just need to get ourselves through this and there’s lots of things that we can do and many of those are positive.

So I want to finish by thanking Shireen because she put this thing together. So thank you very much for organizing this. I’m looking forward to us doing it again, so thank you on my behalf for doing that.

Shireen: [01:00:25]

Oh, you’re very kind, Morris. I’m really grateful you would be available to talk with me and thank you everybody for attending today as well.

Please do feel free to reach out without to us connect with us on LinkedIn. I’ll send you a link to the recording and if there’s anything we can assist you with, please let us know. Thanks and have a good rest of the day, everybody.

See you, bye.

The After Corona (AC) world of healthcare & travel – Hong Kong 3 radio

Hong Kong Radio 3 – Morning Brew with James Ross
recorded live 31 March 2020

Listen now:

James Ross: [00:00:00] . [00:00:00] So I’m joined as ever on a Tuesday lunchtime by our business, futurist Morris Miselowski.

Morris,  looking forward to the future.  we’re all trying to be optimistic about the future are we get to get through this and get to the other side. And I guess that’s, what you do, isn’t it? You know, we, look forward and see what could happen. I mean, what is the future beyond Corona?

What about the future of healthcare?

Morris Miselowski:
[00:00:25] . I know it’s really difficult as we’re
working through Corona and all of its implications and the death and the
horribleness, think about a future beyond it, but there absolutely is. And it
may take us three months.

It may take us six months to get there, but the world will have changed. Forever. And that’s not a melodramatic statement. I’m saying that I, for me in Sci-Fi language, this is the equivalent of us going into a black hole and coming out the other end of it five to 10 years ahead of where we otherwise might have been.

And healthcare is absolutely. In fact, I think healthcare is one of the biggest landscapes of change that we’re about to see.

James Ross: [00:01:05] Yeah, I mean, what could it mean? Because you know,
we’ve, we’ve got these, all these hospitals, these big new hospitals being
built around the world to deal with this is, is this a flavor of what’s going
to come?

And, you know, could, could we expect
better health care? Could we explore? What can we expense you think.

Morris Miselowski: [00:01:21] I think we’re going to have extraordinary health care. I think that in the next five years, we will break the back of many diseases of cancers, of obviously this Corona. I think we’ll also start to STEM the conversation about this ability and move into ability.

I say all of that, not because we are all
holding hands and singing kumbaya and the world is wonderful, but because of
how much effort is going into the healthcare scene at the moment, there is so
much collaboration. There is so much research. There is so much insight and
sharing literally in the last two or three months, the equivalent of decades
that [00:02:00] yes, hopefully all of that’s laser focused on trying to get us
a resolution to the issue with the hand, but there will be huge.

Ripple effects. There’ll be things that we
discover, things that we know, things that we’ve learning that we’ll be able to
apply in different ways. And all of that is yet to show its face.

James Ross: [00:02:17] I mean, could one say that the world needed this to get
us to focus on these things because perhaps we’ve not been focused on,
particularly on issues about healthcare.

And I mean, it’s terrible to say it, but maybe we need that push.

Morris Miselowski: [00:02:31] Yeah. I wish it wouldn’t have come about this way, but I absolutely agree. I mean, I’ve, I’ve said a lot over the last two months that look at what we’re capable of. If we want to do something, the collective Goodwill around the planet and yes, we’re forced to do it and yes, it’s terrible circumstances.

We’re, I accept that wholeheartedly and
have nothing good to say about what brought us to this. But the reality is
we’re here and look at what we can do when we are collectively [00:03:00]
driven. To achieve something in Australia. We are changing the nature of
healthcare, hopefully forever. Only this afternoon, literally three hours ago,
there was an announcement made that our private hospitals and our public
hospitals, we’re going to work collaboratively and collectively for the first
time ever.

Wow. We’re literally going to share
resources, nurses, doctors. They would be, we don’t, I mean this has to play
itself out, but this is what we were told. There would be no borders between
the hospitals at all. I would be able to share, load share, patients, share
resources. And shift funding. And that’s not something that ever, I don’t think
would have happened in Australia.

They’ve tried for decades to make it so
there’s been no public appetite and this was done within the space of a week.
Add to that the notion of telemedicine, health medicine, a medicine M medicine,
which means that we’re using virtual mobiles and all the things I’ve rapid on
about [00:04:00] this as the medical world has for 20 years, we’ve known we
could do this, but again, the collective appetite for it was so small.

In Australia. We brought all of that in and funded it within 10 days, and that’s happening around the world. So the ramifications of this has to be big, I hope anyway, there has to be good outcome out of what we’re going through.

James Ross: [00:04:19] Does this mean that we’ll also see much better tech in
healthcare, do you think?

Morris Miselowski: [00:04:24] I think we’ll see much better tech, but the biggest difference for me, is actually not a technology one. It’s a human one. We will now become responsible as individuals for our health and wellness. We are all now looking after ourselves in ways that we might’ve done before. We’re making sure that we’re not exposing ourselves or washing our hands.

We’re actually taking responsibility for
not catching this disease. And I know that sounds a simple thing to do, but our
medical model for the last. 200 years has been based on waiting for something
to go wrong and then looking for medical help to fix it. We’re not doing that
[00:05:00] anymore. In fact, the overall global message is fix yourself.

Look after yourself. Don’t come to a
medical attention if you don’t need to. That’s going to be, to me, the biggest
change of all,

James Ross: [00:05:11] and and with 7 billion people on the planet, it needs to
be that way. One has to look after oneself.

Morris Miselowski:
[00:05:17] I think it does. Now, that’s not a
looking after oneself. I’m not for a moment saying we shouldn’t go after
medical health, but what it means is we’re going to take better care of
ourselves, will impact.

And nutrition will look after ourselves.
Perhaps we’ll exercise a bit more, better, a bit better. We’ll be more
conscious of the things that our body might come in contact with and what it
might cause. So we’ll take a whole lot more responsibility for wellness. And
that’s where I think we’re headed into this wellness phase where along with
humanity and ourselves.

Technology, the apps that we carry on our
mobile phone that tell us how far we walk, how much we ate, have long we’ve
slept, all of those sorts of insights. We’ll mix again to change the landscape.
And I was saying that would be 10 years. In fact, I’ve almost finished
producing a video [00:06:00] last week, which I’ve now put on hold because I
thought all of these things would be 2040 we’ve gone into re-edit now to say
all these things will be done by 2030 I’ve brought forward 10 years in my

James Ross: [00:06:13] Yeah, I mean, it seems to have a truncated everything,
doesn’t it? It seems to have brought it all forward. Um, in terms of other, um,
other things that have been affected, one of the other big things, which
touches on health as well, because, you know, we go, we go on holiday to relax,
we go on holiday to renew, refresh.

Um. Is travel. And you know, we’re seeing
these pictures of all the world’s airlines having their fleets grounded at
various airports. In fact, you know, almost nowhere to park so many planes
because there’s never been so many planes on the ground in one place. Or do we
think about the future of travel? Do you think that that, uh, we’ll go back to
where we were or.

Are we somehow going to be, you know, hunkering down in our, in our own places, in our own towns and our [00:07:00] own countries and not, not traveling, uh, overseas so much? Or, or what do you think?

Morris Miselowski:
[00:07:07] As soon as we can, we will be running to
the airports? There’s a number of reasons for that. One is that as humans, we’d
like to explore over the horizon as part of our psyche.

We all always want to see something beyond
where we can, where our faith can take us. There will be a short term. Short
term is six 12 months. Again, I know that causes harm and concern, but six to
12 months, I think it’ll be iffy. Obviously people will be reticent to go as
they must probably should be far afield.

I believe there will be what I refer to as revenge tourism in about six months. Revenge tourism are people like me. I must say I’m one of them who are saying, as soon as I can get on the plane, I will be on a plane. I’m going to prove this virus hasn’t beaten me. So there will be a whole lot of revenge purchases that are made that’ll [00:08:00] be true of going to the theatre of restaurants.

We’re all making ourselves these equivalent to new year’s Eve promises. When this is over, we will. And that will have a little bit of an uptake around tourism and travel, but the big swing will come, I think around Christmas time and early next year when people are a bit more comfortable of moving and they want to get back to families, they want to get back to them lives.

It will take a while, and most probably
will not be where it was before, but I’d give it a year or two and I’m fairly
sure that we will be back to where our travel habits were.

James Ross: [00:08:35] I mean, it’s going to be a bit bumpy for the airlines,
isn’t it? You know, obviously it’s bumpy at the moment, but, but once this is
finished, you know, suddenly you can potentially going to have this big surge
of people getting back on, uh, on planes.

Um, you know, it’s going to affect prices.
It’s going to have, have lots of different effects, and even, you know, can the
airlines even cope with it, uh, at that point, because they’ve got. You know,
zero planes, um, uh, up in the sky at the moment, or not [00:09:00] very many
anyway. Um, you know, so I think you’re right. It’s going to take a couple of
years to, to sort it all out.

Morris Miselowski: [00:09:08] It will take a couple of years for all of most industries to be able to get through the pipes. We’ll have to really employ people. We’ll have to retrain, reinvigorate people who are just making it all happen. Can’t happen overnight. It will probably be the case that some airlines will not exist into the future.

But others will look at their routes and
wonder where they should be running them or not. You know, all those kinds of
questions will be asked because one of the big things I’m seeing behind the
scenes are corporate to then now taking the opportunity because the carer is
difficult to service when it’s moving.

Now the stationary, I really beginning to
wonder what they should be doing. So is this the best form of my industry? Is
this the misuse of people? Do I have the best technology? Am I doing the right
thing? And then now saying that they’re likely to make changes given that we’ve
come to a stop. So there are lots of different things on our [00:10:00]
landscape ahead.

James Ross: [00:10:01] But for airlines, I mean, it’s a bit of a problem, isn’t
it? Because you’ve suddenly got all these, all these planes, they’re sitting on
the ground. They can maintain them, they can sort them all out now, but they’re
all out of the routine, aren’t they? They’re out of the, um, you know, they’re
out there. They’re not in the right places.

They’ve, you know, the maintenance routine, they take them out every two or three months or whatever it is they do. Um, that’s all gone. So they’ve got to rebuild that from, from, from, from scratch up woods, haven’t they?

Morris Miselowski:
[00:10:28] Yeah, absolutely. And personalizing it
back to Australia again, Virgin, our second airline has already said that if,
well, they’re posturing, that if they’re not given a lifeline by governments
and they’re looking for a couple of, well, one and a half.

Virgin if they’re not given that they don’t, they’re not sure what they will be able to survive. So there are all sorts of issues out there. Financial, as you said, rightly, the planes have to be serviced. You and I have to be comfortable that this thing that’s set on the ground for however many months is capable of flying.

Just getting [00:11:00] people, physically,
people around to do all of that for all the planes. Again, as you’ve said,
right, for the parking car, parks is going to take a while getting, getting,
uh, pilots, getting all the. Host these other people on board and the logistics
of doing it all take a while to come back, but there will be appetite behind
all of this.

There will be consumer demand. Lots of
people are waiting to get back to their homes, to their families, to their
work. There’s, there’s that pent up energy that will take it through its first
run of activity.

James Ross: [00:11:29] Well, I’m sure we’re gonna have many more conversations
like this, Morris, as we, as we all predict what will happen at the end of
this, because I think is, it’s a, it’s a difficult one.

Maybe next week we can have a bit more of a focus on the, uh, on particularly on business and what it means to doing business. I think there’s going to be some interesting things to do with working from home and so on, uh, going forward that, um, that may or may impact us. So, but maybe we’ll say that for next week, shall we, and, uh, and have a chat with chat about that next week.

Morris Miselowski: [00:11:57] Yeah. So lots of these [00:12:00] conversation to be had nothing. Corona, as we all know, is around for a while.

James Ross: [00:12:03] Yes, I think we’ll have time to do it. Morris, Miselowski, our business futurist on the morning brew. Morris. Thanks sir. Thanks as ever.

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